[MD] THE TOWER

[MarshaV]

Peter,

I agree.  Ham challenges all of us.  This is a good thing.   I 
suppose if I had to be generous, I'd have to admit that Krimel is 
important for the same reason.  Even though he's an empty crime.

Marsha







At 04:18 PM 9/29/2008, you wrote:
>Hi Marsha,
>
>I think Ham's contribution to this forum is perhaps more important than some
>realise; being the only one who outright rejects the MoQ, he then becomes
>that essential grain of salt. whilst others quibble over details but
>acquiesce to the overall idea he instead proposes an entirely different
>ontology.
>
>-Peter
>
>
>2008/9/29 MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net>
>
> >
> >
> > Hope I didn't spoil your fun.
> >
> > I have tried to understand Ham's sense of self.   It seems to be a self
> > that is independent and essential, a small self, a conventional self.  An
> > entity that attaches and desires.  That would be ego, yes?  Yet, when he
> > starts talking about value-sensibility, I think there may be something
> > there.  But I still don't know what.  The language is difficult 
> to untangle.
> >
> > Marsha
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 02:41 PM 9/29/2008, you wrote:
> >
> >> Faire Marsha,
> >> Thine awareness runs deep, lightbringer, morningstar.
> >> Lucifer the obsessive lover, Satan the avatar of man.
> >> does this Hamilton speak of ego or of mind?
> >> they are not the same, truly the ego is the doer
> >> and through Satan that doer is destroyed.
> >> Rendered assunder,purified with flame.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----
> >> From: MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net>
> >> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> >> Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 12:46:30 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [MD] THE TOWER
> >>
> >>
> >> And what lead this THE TOWER?  What came before?  (I do love a good
> >> story!)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> THE DEVIL
> >>
> >> Basic Card Symbols
> >>
> >> A winged, horned devil, a black pedestal, a naked male and female
> >> figure, chains, inverted pentagram.
> >>
> >> Basic Tarot Story
> >>
> >> The Fool comes to the foot of an enormous black mountain where reigns
> >> a creature half goat, half god. At his hooves, naked people linked to
> >> the god's throne by chains, engage in every indulgence imaginable:
> >> sex, drugs, food, gold, drink. The closer the Fool gets, the more he
> >> feels his own earthly desires rising in him. Lust, passion,
> >> obsession, greed. "I refuse to give into you!" he roars at the Goat
> >> god, resisting with all his might. The creature returns a curious
> >> look. "All I am doing is bringing out what is already in you," the
> >> beast responds. "Such feelings are nothing to fear, nothing to be
> >> ashamed of, or even to avoid." The Fool gestures angrily at the
> >> chained men and women, "You say that even though they are enslaved?"
> >> The Goat-god mimics the Fool's gesture. "Take another look."
> >>
> >> The Fool does so, and realizes that the chained collars the men and
> >> women wear are wide enough for them to easily slip off over their
> >> heads. "They can be free if they wish to be," the Goat-god says,
> >> "Though you are right. I am the god of your strongest desires. But
> >> you see here only those who have allowed their base, bestial desires
> >> to control them." At this the Goat-god gestures upward, toward the
> >> peak of the mountain. "You do not see those who have allowed their
> >> impulses and aspirations to take them up to the top of that mountain.
> >> Inhibitions can enslave as easily as excesses. They can keep you from
> >> following your passion to the highest heights." The Fool realizes the
> >> truth in this, and that he has mistaken the Goat-god. Here he
> >> understands now that it is not a creature of evil, but of great
> >> power, the lowest and the highest, both of beast and god. Like all
> >> power it is frightening, and dangerous...but it is also the key to
> >> freedom and transcendence if understood and well used.
> >>
> >> Basic Tarot Meaning
> >>
> >> Perhaps the most misunderstood card of all the major arcana, the
> >> Devil is not really "Satan" at all, but Pan the half-goat nature god
> >> and/or Dionysius. These are gods of pleasure and abandon, of wild
> >> behavior and unbridled desires. With Capricorn as its ruling sign,
> >> this is a card about ambitions; it is also synonymous with temptation
> >> and addiction. On the flip side, however, the card can be a warning
> >> to someone who is too restrained, someone who never allows themselves
> >> to get passionate or messy or wild - or ambitious. This, too, is a
> >> form of enslavement. As a person, the Devil can stand for a man of
> >> money or erotic power, aggressive, controlling, or just persuasive.
> >> This is not to say a bad man, but certainly a powerful man who is
> >> hard to resist. The important thing is to remind the Querent that any
> >> chain is freely worn. In most cases, you are enslaved only because
> >> you allow it.
> >>
> >> Thirteen's Observations
> >>
> >> This card explores some very frightening things, things we are taught
> >> to view as evil or shameful. Like earthy materialism, sexual desire,
> >> valuables, food, or drugs. Lack of control, excess, obsession and raw
> >> ambition. At its absolute worst, this is either the addict or the
> >> stalker, totally obsessed, enslaved. At its best, this is a card
> >> about giving into impulse, cutting lose, going for the gold, climbing
> >> every mountain. Among all the cards, this is one of the most complex;
> >> interestingly because no other card is so one-sided. Most cards urge
> >> balance, unity, restraint, yin-yang.. Not this card. Completely tilted
> >> toward the masculine, it is a card that revels in extremity. There is
> >> a convincing argument that this is the most powerful and dangerous
> >> card in the deck. Magically speaking, it is the one card in the deck
> >> that holds the secret of how to escape the material and temporal
> >> bonds of Earth. It is a very potent and fascinating card.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> .
> >> .
> >>
> >> Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the
> >> stars.........
> >> .
> >> .
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >
> > .
> > .
> >
> > Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
> > .
> > .
> > Moq_Discuss mailing list
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.
.

Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
.
.