[MD] Daffodils: a religion of experience.

Sat Apr 11 01:19:05 PDT 2009

Will,

Which would be Castanedas final book?  Btw, I like my Dan Juan's in 
the form of Johnny Depp, like in Don Juan DeMarco.

Marsha

p.s.  Having visited Ojai many times, I have never been to the 
Krishnamurti Foundation.

At 01:18 AM 4/11/2009, you wrote:
>Hi Marsha,
>
>Yeah, Ojai is a magical place, a center of power if you will.  I love Huxley,
>and believe he found the answer he was looking for.  Speaking of brujos,
>I haven't been following the post, but I'm sure Don Juan was brought up.
>I liked Castanedas final book.
>
>Willblake2
>
>
>On Apr 10, 2009, at 2:41:34 AM, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
>
>Greetings Will,
>
>I've been to Ojai many times, and can close my eyes and picture the
>ride there. Beautiful! You don't own the yard with the mower as
>lawn ornament, do you?
>
>The topic of Krishnamurit's life has come up before. I read a
>biography a very long time ago. Someone in this forum mentioned he
>was having an affair with his brother's wife. I do not care to make
>any judgements on his character. I saw him speak in an auditorium at
>Madison Square Garden. When he finished speaking he just got up and
>left the stage. It was very strange. I read 'Think On These Things'
>many, many years ago, It might have been my first reading of a
>metaphysical type, and have been curious to reread it. Also I want
>to read the dialogues between he and David Bohm as a way to acquaint
>myself with David Bohm.
>
>After listening to the In Our Times, 'Brave New World', and hearing
>the discussion concerning Aldus Huxley, I'd have to say he was just
>another brujo. It was a depressing IOT program.
>
>
>Marsha
>
>
>
>
>At 12:22 AM 4/10/2009, you wrote:
> >Hi Marsha,
> >
> >If you want to get a historical perspective on Krishnamurti, and how he
> >was brought up through the religion of theosophy, read "Madam
> >Blavatsky's Baboon". It is an enjoyable read although somewhat
> >biased. Oh, and Aldus Huxley hung out a little with Krishnamurti, here in
> >Ojai, near where I live.
> >
> >Willblake2
> >
> >
> >On Apr 8, 2009, at 3:34:46 AM, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
> >
> >http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060916095
> >
> >
> >Krishnamurti:
> >
> >Would you like to discuss with you the problem of freedom. It
> >is a very complex problem, needing deep study and understanding. We
> >hear much talk about freedom, religious freedom, and the freedom to
> >do what one would like to do. Volumes have been written on all this
> >by scholars. But I think we can approach it very simply and directly,
> >and perhaps that will bring us to the real solution.
> >
> >I wonder if you have ever stopped to observe the marvellous
> >glow in the west as the sun sets, with the shy young moon just over
> >the trees? Often at that hour the river is very calm, and then
> >everything is reflected on its surface: the bridge, the train that
> >goes over it, the tender moon, and presently, as it grows dark, the
> >stars. It is all very beautiful. And to observe, to watch, to give
> >your whole attention to something beautiful, your mind must be free
> >of preoccupations, must it not? It must not be occupied with
> >problems, with worries, with speculations. It is only when the mind
> >is very quiet that you can really observe, for then the mind is
> >sensitive to extraordinary beauty; and perhaps here is a clue to our
> >problem of freedom.
> >
> >Now, what does it mean to be free? Is freedom a matter of doing
> >what happens to suit you, going where you like, thinking what you
> >will? This you do anyhow. Merely to have independence, does that mean
> >freedom? Many people in the world are independent, but very few are
> >free. Freedom implies great intelligence, does it not? To be free is
> >to be intelligent, but intelligence does not come into being by just
> >wishing to be free; it comes into being only when you begin to
> >understand your whole environment, the social, religious, parental
> >and traditional influences that are continually closing in on you.
> >But to understand the various influences - the influence of your
> >parents, of your government, of society, of the culture to which you
> >belong, of your beliefs, your gods and superstitions, of the
> >tradition to which you conform unthinkingly - to understand all these
> >and become free from them requires deep insight; but you generally
> >give in to them because inwardly you are frightened. You are afraid
> >of not having a good position in life; you are afraid of what your
> >priest will say; you are afraid of not following tradition, of not
> >doing the right thing. But freedom is really a state of mind in which
> >there is no fear or compulsion, no urge to be secure.
> >
> >Don't most of us want to be safe? Don't we want to be told what
> >marvellous people we are, how lovely we look, or what extraordinary
> >intelligence we have? Otherwise we would not put letters after our
> >names. All that kind of thing gives us self-assurance, a sense of
> >importance. We all want to be famous people - and the moment we want
> >to be something, we are no longer free.
> >
> >Please see this, for it is the real clue to the understanding
> >of the problem of freedom. Whether in this world of politicians,
> >power, position and authority, or in the so-called spiritual world
> >where you aspire to be virtuous, noble, saintly, the moment you want
> >to be somebody you are no longer free. But the man or the woman who
> >sees the absurdity of all these things and whose heart is therefore
> >innocent, and therefore not moved by the desire to be somebody - such
> >a person is free. If you understand the simplicity of it you will
> >also see its extraordinary beauty and depth.
> >
> >After all, examinations are for that purpose: to give you a
> >position, to make you somebody. Titles, position and knowledge
> >encourage you to be something. Have you not noticed that your parents
> >and teachers tell you that you must amount to something in life, that
> >you must be successful like your uncle or your grandfather? Or you
> >try to imitate the example of some hero, to be like the Masters, the
> >saints; so you are never free. Whether you follow the example of a
> >Master, a saint, a teacher, a relative, or stick to a particular
> >tradition, it all implies a demand on your part to be something; and
> >it is only when you really understand this fact that there is freedom.
> >
> >The function of education, then, is to help you from childhood
> >not to imitate anybody, but to be yourself all the time. And this is
> >a most difficult thing to do: whether you are ugly or beautiful,
> >whether you are envious or jealous, always to be what you are, but
> >understand it. To be yourself is very difficult, because you think
> >that what you are is ignoble, and that if you could only change what
> >you are into something noble it would be marvellous; but that never
> >happens. Whereas, if you look at what you actually are and understand
> >it, then in that very understanding there is a transformation. So
> >freedom lies, not in trying to become something different, nor in
> >doing whatever you happen to feel like doing, nor in following the
> >authority of tradition, of your parents, of your guru, but in
> >understanding what you are from moment to moment.
> >
> >You see, you are not educated for this; your education
> >encourages you to become something or other - but that is not the
> >understanding of yourself. Your `self' is a very complex thing; it is
> >not merely the entity that goes to school, that quarrels, that plays
> >games, that is afraid, but it is also something hidden, not obvious.
> >It is made up, not only of all the thoughts that you think, but also
> >of all the things that have been put into your mind by other people,
> >by books, by the newspapers, by your leaders; and it is possible to
> >understand all that only when you don't want to be somebody, when you
> >don't imitate, when you don't follow - which means, really, when you
> >are in revolt against the whole tradition of trying to become
> >something. That is the only true revolution, leading to extraordinary
> >freedom. To cultivate this freedom is the real function of education.
> >
> >Your parents, your teachers and your own desires want you to be
> >identified with something or other in order to be happy, secure. But
> >to be intelligent, must you not break through all the influences that
> >enslave and crush you?
> >
> >The hope of a new world is in those of you who begin to see
> >what is false and revolt against it, not just verbally but actually.
> >And that is why you should seek the right kind of education; for it
> >is only when you grow in freedom that you can create a new world not
> >based on tradition or shaped according to the idiosyncrasy of some
> >philosopher or idealist. But there can be no freedom as long as you
> >are merely trying to become somebody, or imitate a noble example.
> >(TOTT, pp.12-15)
> >
> >
> >
> >..
> >_____________
> >
> >Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars...........
> >..
> >..
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>..
>_____________
>
>Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars..........
>..
>..
>
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.
_____________

Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
.
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