[MD] Catching up to Pirsig

[MarshaV]

At 04:00 PM 4/20/2009, you wrote:
>On Monday 20 April 2009 11:56 AM Ham writes to Platt:
>
><snip>
> > Rather, it's the principle that value sensibility is
> > proprietary to the individual, not an attribute of the universe.
><snip>
>
>On 5 March 2009 Case¹s Answer to Marsha:
>
>Still given the teleological bent of so many MoQers and the mystical bent of
>others I think The Way is a much better way of naming the unnamable Quality..
>It implies a path or a journey, movement through space and time. A path
>wanders over and around obstacles. We see it ahead of us and it guides our
>steps but we still do not know where it is leading or if we will get there.
>The Way is a mystery but we are tuned by nature to recognize it in the
>patterns of meaningful coincidence that arise with every step we take.
>
>When the Shit hits the Fan
>Hold your breath, close your eyes and walk on.
>
>End of Part Four
>
>Hi All,
>
>I like the TAO.
>
>Joe


Hello Joe,

Oh yes, Case's 'The Tao in Four Parts' is 
absolutely wonderful.  I am so happy to see it, 
even in part, posted again.  But for some reason 
The Way doesn't work for me, while Emptiness 
does.   I previously mentioned that I had been 
bitten by the Buddhist logic, and while 'I' 
didn't suffer total destruction, Emptiness now 
seems to run in my blood.  I bet there are many paths.


Marsha






>On 4/20/09 11:56 AM, "Ham Priday" <hampday1 at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi Platt --
> >
> >
> >
> >> I have probably missed the point of your questions since it
> >> seems obvious to me and probably to you that we as
> >> human beings currently living in the West are much better off
> >> than we were, say, in the Middle Ages or, going back even
> >> further, when we were painting symbols of antelope in the caves
> >> of Lascaux.  As for the obvious "better offness" of morality,
> >> we no longer live in a world where might makes right but in a
> >> world of laws protecting individual rights to be free of social
> >> (government) oppression -- rights that as you know are now
> >> being threatened by Obamamania. Unfortunately the path to
> >> betterness (individual liberty/personal responsibility) is never
> >> without reversals and setbacks such as we are witnessing today.
> >
> > I guess I've narrowed down my "mission" here 
> to a single purpose: persuading
> > the MoQers that value and morality start with the individual subject.  The
> > problem with you folks -- and that includes 
> you, Platt -- is that Pirsig has
> > rejected subjectivity and you are all trying to get around it by impugning
> > value to the insentient universe.  This won't work epistemologically,
> > metaphysically, or as a morality system.
> >
> > This isn't a political mission -- heaven knows we've been beating that to
> > death for years.  Rather, it's the principle that value sensibility is
> > proprietary to the individual, not an attribute of the universe.  Value is
> > perceived differentially by the human being (organism) which
> > intellectualizes (rationalizes) it as an "esthetic/moral spectrum" from
> > goodness or excellence to evil or banality.  What we experience are
> > objectivized manifestations of these values, and morality represents an
> > effort to ensure that human society survives and flourishes in the same way
> > that biological instincts assure the survival of non-valuistic life forms..
> >
> > I believe that Mr. Pirsig was aiming for the same objective when decided to
> > make LILA "An Inquiry into Morals".  What 
> muddied the waters was his refusal
> > to acknowledge subjective awareness as the 
> locus of value, replacing it with
> > an evolutionary system of levels and patterns which, in effect, turns
> > process and relations into "static" phenomena.
> >
> > Back in the '50s, I was intrigued by a small paperback in which a biologist
> > outlined a moralistic philosophy based on attraction and desire.  As a
> > social moralist, you may find his line of reasoning of interest:
> >
> > "How much more certain a man is to do right if he not only knows what it is
> > but WANTS to do it!  This want guards him far more strongly against wrong
> > than does the enforcement of his loyalty by law or obligation.  A stong
> > desire, a goal he seeks, is more powerful in 
> the end than these.  The lesson
> > we must learn is that the only sure way to make man moral is through his
> > motives, to make him WANT to do the things he OUGHT to do.  The means to
> > save society may be as simple--and as difficult--as that.  What makes us do
> > evil is that evil, for one reason or another, attracts us more rthan good
> > does.  Not until virtue is attractive FOR ITS OWN SAKE will men cleave
> > always to it.  Our motive, our emotions, our MOVINGS must be elevated if
> > life is to reach a higher moral plane.  Many reformers think that emotions
> > are a hindrance to man's attainment of the ideal society, and look forward
> > to the day when reason only, unclouded by feeling, will guide his conduct..
> > That day will never come, for emotion gives the motive power for behavior..
> > ...Science can help develop techniques by which the good life can be found,
> > but we shall never attain to it unless we earnestly DESIRE to do so."
> >         -- Edmund W. Sinnott: "The Biology of the Spirit" (1957)
> >
> > For all I know, Dr. Sinnott's little book may have sparked my interest in
> > human value.  (I no longer remember.)  However, if you compare this simple
> > concept with Pirsig's non-subjective, 
> non-emotional, levels-driven universe,
> > you may understand the reason for my discontent.
> >
> > Essentially yours,
> > Ham
> >
> >
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Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
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