[MD] What a wonderful world

[Andre Broersen]

Hello Everyone, back from the land of the leprechauns, druid, standing stone
circles and rainswept Hungry Hill (Cork)...and Joyce of course but never
made it to Dublin.

Bodvar to Andre (seems like ages ago):
I see you are fed up with this discussion (but return to it nevertheless to
tell us ;-)

Andre:
I'm a masochist and in love with MoQ stuff Bodvar, so please forgive a silly
young, inexperienced old traveller.

Bodvar:
Language is our ocean and nothing can be conveyed without employing it.

Andre:
I'm not suggesting for one moment that language is all we have... Quality
has all... . What I tried to get across in this statement is that, because
the MoQ is still in its infancy language, as a social PoV is what we have to
communicate with along with other forms of media (of necessity drenched
in,and the product of S/O thinking.
It is still our most convenient and awkward mediator of meanings we try to
convey. However, the deeper meanings are to be found 'in between the
lines'...they can only be hinted at.
I remember there was some discussion a while back about Pirsig's suggestion
that particles do what they do because they prefer to do them. Now, on the
surface of it this is a silly, illogical statement to make. How can
particles have preferences?

Say this to any Tom, Dick or Harry down the street and they'll look at you
funny and ask you if you are feeling OK.

My point is that Pirsig arrived at this deeper level of understanding
through Quality (Reality) and being a much better 'expressionist' than I am.
It is similar to the tat tvam asi, Thou art That. One cannot 'understand'
this 'intellectually'.because it refers to an experience of DQ, which is
undefinable/undifferentiated.
Good poetry works in the same way...the art of saying with words what cannot
be expressed by words (or something like that).

Bodvar:
...don't you see: It's SOM that has led us to believe in an objective,
immutable reality that words are mere subjective shadows of (ref.
SOM's instigator Plato's cave metaphor) This is the "tormentor" I spoke
about that the MOQ was meant to relieve us from, but that Pirsig himself got
cold feets about and left for a more watered-down variety where intellect no
longer is SOM, but mental activity.

Andre:
Many moons ago I coined the term 'slt' (social level thinking), denoting the
difference between mental activity (thinking/ talking about things (eg
politics, economics, the free market, cooking,gardening, philosophy etc,
etc) and intellectualizing (the abstract manipulation of symbols with no
immediate reference to...? (Pirsig's definition in one of the annotations).
Off memory, this got bogged down inbetween the loads of sheep droppings I
fell in this last week on my way to a hilltop!

Bodvar:
And you - like Odyssey's sailors - are tied to the SOM mast and holy
convinced that talking about the MOQ is "intellectualizing" - and that
Quality/Language is existence's deepest split and - moreover - that language
(manipulation of symbols) is MOQ's 4th level... .

Andre:
See my point above and I deny I see Q/L as the deepest split of existence. I
have resisted this dichotomy on several occassions but simply do not have
the intellectual tools/ acumen to convey this properly.

Bodvar:
You Andre appeared as a promising MOQ candidate but proved a dud like so
many.

Andre:
Mea culpa, mea culpa mea maxima culpa for having disappointed you.

Bodvar:
Still your friend

Andre:
Thank you...I am still learning as I go along. The feeling is mutual you
obstinate bastard!