[MD] Creativity and Philosophology, 2 (from 2005)

[John Carl]

Nah, nothing like a real gauntlet in your face to raise a reaction.
"Come out and fight you wussy academic philosophologists you!"



On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Ian Glendinning
<ian.glendinning at gmail.com>wrote:

> That's a great contribution John, I'd forgetten that question was
> explicit in the Baggini interview.
>
> ... except for one minor thing ...
>
> Clearly Pirsig says he wants others to criticize and raise his game
> (and in my experience he is genuine in that), but at the time,
> branding those others as somehow inferior philosophologists clearly
> had the opposite effect (as in fact you might expect).
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 5:28 PM, John Carl<ridgecoyote at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Steve, Matt, and all,
> > Last night or the night before while clicking through archives and links
> and
> > what-not I came across this interview, with the following insight into
> the
> > question:
> >
> >
> > BAGGINI: I like the idea of “philosophology” as opposed to real
> philosophy.
> > And I am sure that one of the main trappings of academic philosophy is
> that
> > it encourages the former rather than the latter. But I'm not sure the
> > distinction is as neat as you present it, and this is what I think serves
> as
> > an obstacle to the reception of the MOQ.
> >
> >
> >
> > PIRSIG: No, it isn't neat, since most philosophologists also philosophize
> > and most philosophers also philosophologise.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Steven Peterson <
> peterson.steve at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> > Hi Matt,
> >>
> >> Let me grant that you've successfully "fuzzed-up" the distinction
> >> between philosophy and philosophology that Pirsig and others would
> >> like to keep distinct.
> >
> >
> > So from my reading of this quote, the distinction was "fuzzed-up" even
> > before Matt.  It was intended as a fuzzy distinction by its creator.
>  Pirsig
> > also talks about doing philosophology himself, but his primary
> orientation
> > is as philosopher who is a half-assed philosophologist, rather than the
> > other way around.
> >
> > How this relates to the debate is the distinction is not who we are, it
> is
> > in what we do -   In the moment I can do philosophy or I can do
> > philosophology.  There is a clear distinction,  in the moment of doing,
> > which is not fuzzy.  Which one I am, is determined by which one I am
> doing.
> >  And it changes.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> You've said that Pirsig wants us to keep this distinction because it
> >> frees him from the criticisms of academia. Can you see any other
> >> purpose for which this distinction could still be useful?
> >>
> >
> > Well I don't agree with that "reason" as Pirsig's.   He plainly wants the
> > criticisms of academia.  I mean, who wouldn't?  I can't imagine anything
> > more exciting than waking up and finding academia criticizing me.
> >
> > BAGGINI: Your alter-ego Phaedrus is the epitome of the lone philosopher.
> He
> > doesn't ignore other philosophers completely, but he doesn't have
> > well-informed fellow philosophers to push him and test him, and he
> develops
> > his own philosophy mostly independently from that which has gone before.
> I
> > would suggest, however, that he makes the opposite error of the
> > philosophologists he seems to feel superior too: they spend too much time
> > rehearsing the ideas of others, but he underestimates the extent to which
> > others can help us to raise our game and think better.
> >
> >
> >
> > PIRSIG: Any time others want to help me raise my game and think better,
> I'm
> > all for it. The problem has been that those academic others who should be
> > engaging the Metaphysics of Quality have remained silent for 31 years in
> > contrast to the response of the general public.
> >
> >
> >
> > John
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