[MD] What a wonderful world

Wed Aug 5 05:14:44 PDT 2009

Ron,

Why don't you read your (MD) Rant of Friday, July 17, 2009 9:00 AM, and
analyze it

Marsha

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of X Acto
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:37 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] What a wonderful world

What is foolish, I believe, is only applying "not this, not that" to those
ideas
you do not like. 

What I do not like is when you ask for an explaination and a convincing
arguement
of a point of view you do not agree with from the start, then condemn
those who take up your challenge as alpha males trying to brainwash you
into following that point of view.

You make "this or that " choices all the time, you choose "this or that"
when you get out of bed in the morning, use the bathroom, eat, put on
cloths, paint, read, contribute on the discuss.
"not this not that" does not seem to pertain to those ideas you like.
you most certainly seem to choose MoQ, athieism,buddhism, painting
 and contributing to the discuss.

What I do think is foolish is using "not this, not that" as a philosphical
tool
used in active honost inquirey, for it is anything but an honost inquirey
it is a dismissal of it and a cementing of existing prejudices.
You use it as a fundementalist uses the devil. 

No thing is holy Marsha

all things are holy

that includes those things you like and dislike

thats about all I have to say
that and this "alpha male" isn't playing 
fetch for your amusement any longer.

I refuse to participate in the cementing of your prejudices

----- Original Message ----
From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 2:38:19 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] What a wonderful world

Andre,

Interesting thing, I am not Lao Tsu, nor ever claimed to be someone like
him.  I do claim, though, no matter what I investigate it turns out to be
not this, not that.  If I seem foolish for saying so, than maybe I am
foolish.

Marsha

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Andre Broersen
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:55 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] What a wonderful world

Marsha to Andre:If the wave is dynamic, and the particle static, the
wave/particle duality
is still an analogy.  Maybe to understand all in analogy (a kind of death to
intellectual patterns) is to be open and allow for the possibility of
intuition.

Andre:
Hi Marsha, catching up a bit after my wonderful holiday in the land of Eire.

In this case I put Reanney's waves ( from 'Music of the Mind') as similar to
the undifferentiated continuum (the waves)...Quality from which we
'abstract' the 'particles' i.e our evolution has developed sensitivity to/
awareness of the anorganic, and organic abstractions/perceptions.(SOM's
stronghold) When we 'understand/comprehend something we 'resonate, with
their waves ( in Pirsig's  ZMM parlance... 'waves of crystallization' occur
).

Some call this an 'epiphany', some a mystical experience when something that
has 'eluded' you for a long time suddenly 'gells' it fits, it resonates...it
has 'returned to the wave from which it was abstracted in particle form and
now resonates as 'enlightenment' in wave form...and you are aware of
this!!!it has 'expanded' your consciousness.
And yes, I think I agree with you...it remains ( to communicate) an
analogy...but for yourself!!!...at the (what we call intuitive level) you
know better. As Lao Tsu said: those who do not know, talk, those who know do
not talk.

Pirsig (ZMM) does talk about transcending the intellectual level...reaching
a broader , more inclusive level of understanding...a higher level of
'consciousness' so I make no bones about using these terms.They are central
to an understanding of the MoQ. Some call it mystical but as Bodvar has
suggested this is a typical SOM term/ interpretation (and there is nothing
subjective (in a derogatory 'just' way)  about mystical experiences. They
have occured too often with too many people...the wave experiences are real.
The re- connections with the All or whatever you want to call it.

It suggests the complementarity of the wave/particle Bohm was talking about.
Pirsig has given expression to this in his MoQ but I admit readily that I do
not completely understand (read: resonate) with this simply because I am
still grappling with parts of the MoQ. (especially as explained by other
MD'ers)

I hope I am making some sense and do not disappoint Bodvar too much in the
process otherwise I'll be SOM doomed forever!!

Thanks for you kind words Marsha and not forgetting Ron!!( you are correct
Ron, we must be precise).

For what it is worth
Andre
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