[MD] The case for an Uncreated Source

[Joseph Maurer]

On 8/4/09 11:27 PM, "Ham Priday" <hampday1 at verizon.net> wrote:

[Ham]
Did you mean to say that "the direction of evolution is morality"?  If
that's what you meant, and it seems to be what Pirsig is saying, then you
have a different concept of morality than I do. For me, morality requires
human judgment.  It's society's convention for acceptable behavior based on
the value-sensibility of its individual members.  Without a sensible agent,
there would be no realization of morality or value.

Hi Ham and all,

[Joe]
Imho yes, evolution is a logical basis for morality.  Philosophers agreed
that something existed, since they exist.  How does free will fit into that
schematic?   Pirsig¹s first slice of the metaphysical knife is DQ/SQ.  There
is something in our awareness that is not defined.  He called it DQ.  There
is no compulsion from accepted meaning to choose the undefined.  Through
analogy or metaphor there is no compulsion to not choose the undefined. I am
free to choose.  I will examine undefined DQ very carefully through metaphor
and analogy before I choose.

[Joe]
In an age of emphasis on mathematical logic the subjective as undefined has
restricted mathematical manipulations.  I can¹t divide by 0 since the result
is indeterminate.  DQ is undefined and becomes 0 by default for modern
mathematicians.  According to MOQ I experience the undefined in evolution.
This is indeterminate in mathematical computations.  I find myself at a loss
for words since there is no word for the undefined. If only the objective is
true, division by 0, the undefined, is indeterminate, undefined.  The error
of trying to use objective logic for the indeterminate creates a denial for
logic of the undefined.

[Joe]
In your ontogeny you avoid division by 0 by creating an indeterminate
knowledge of an uncreated essence.  No division!  I argue that I can have no
direct experience of an uncreated essence.  It is beyond my present level of
evolution.   There is a hint that further individual evolution has occurred.
There are heroes!

[Joe]
In the mathematical description of evolution the indeterminate of division
by 0 necessitates manipulations in logic to insure that any division by 0,
like evolution, is cancelled by its opposite before any conclusion can be
reached.  Evolution for an undefined subject is denied, only the object
changes.  MOQ logic correctly defines the subject in SOL.

[Joe]
I do not know how to explain, mathematically, levels in existence.  I have
no calculus.  The absolute is denied.  Undefined DQ is dogma.   In
mathematical logic I deny definition for a metaphysically evolving hierarchy
of levels.  Might makes right.

[Joe]
How does the individual evolve morally?  The individual is aware of who
he/she is.   Etc.  

 

Joe

> Did you mean to say that "the direction of evolution is morality"?  If
> that's what you meant, and it seems to be what Pirsig is saying, then you
> have a different concept of morality than I do.  For me, morality requires
> human judgment.  It's society's convention for acceptable behavior based on
> the value-sensibility of its individual members.  Without a sensible agent,
> there would be no realization of morality or value.