[MD] Ironistic Metaphysics

[John Carl]

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 5:54 PM, gav <gav_gc at yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>
> is 'metaphysics' a rational translation of the suprarational logic of myth?
> (or is this 'suprarational' logic contained within what dmb calls the
> expanded rationality?)
>

Well it certainly can be.


>
> in other words:
> a metaphysics is explicit; myth is implicit.



Now there I'm not so sure.  I've had a quote in my mind for some time that I
always mentally attributed to Pirsig, but I came across it the other day In
Needleman and so I guess I got it from him.  "Unconscious metaphysics tend
to be bad metaphysics."  So I think unconscious and bad metaphysics happen.
  implicit in the values to which the subject adheres, otherwise
non-explicit in word or thought.

Whereas even the most rigourous philosophical system still partakes of and
consists of a language with roots in culture and is in so many regards,
"mythic". - any meaning at all, even the most logically
rigorous,  exists only in the collusion of a story.


> myth is contained *within* what we call reality - it is the fecundating
> source of reality. we cannot apprehend myth in a *somitic* manner; rather we
> must yield to the rhythm and logic of mythopoetry, and by becoming one with
> this source - feeling it within - we directly understand it. (again, dmb and
> all, is this mythopoetic logic contained within an expanded rationality, or
> is it something else? i am not sure)


Right, like stopping the record so you can find the notes of the song you
love so much.  You can't break it apart to get at it's heart.  its art.




>
>
> i think as long as we use metaphysical analogues well - creatively,
> originally, then they remain in tune, in accord, with their mythic
> source...if they don't we end up with, for instance, a nihilistic atomistic
> metaphysics: one that drives a wedge between experience and
> thought...between heart and head.
>


Well sometimes you get bad music.  its like the question of creativity
Pirsig posited in ZAMM, get creative and you could get an A, you could get
and F.  The whole system militates against it.  Do what the teacher wants.
 That's the way to get your A.



>
> as long as we are sane, ie are part of a culture, we have a metaphysical
> position. we may not be able to explain it well but it is necessary to
> function, communicate.
>
> what is lacking in the west, and now globally, is a strong conscious
> connection to the mythopoetry - the value truth - that lies behind and
> informs any useful explicit metaphysics.


Value. Such a simple word.  Such a big concept.

>
>
> this connection is strengthened by revivifying community and spending time
> in nature...getting close to the earth....gardening is very helpful too.
> nature is illustrated myth.
>

Ah.... yes.  And myth is also illustrated nature.  the web weaving never
ceases.