[MD] [Bulk] Re: Rorty's Relativism

[MarshaV]

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From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of david buchanan
Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 5:42 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [MD] Rorty's Relativism


Marsha quoted from Wiki on the Sophists:
Sophists are considered the founding fathers of relativism in the Western
World. Elements of relativism emerged among the Sophists in the 5th century
BC. Notably, it was Protagoras who coined the phrase, "Man is the measure of
all things: of things which are, that they are, and of things which are not,
that they are not." The thinking of the Sophists is mainly known through
their opponents, Plato and Socrates.

dmb says:
Yes, that's how Plato saw them and that bit of slander has pretty well stuck
ever since. But Pirsig disagrees. Near the end of chapter 29 in ZAMM he
writes...

" 'Man is the measure of all things.' Yes, that's what he is saying about
Quality. Man is not the source of all things, as the subjective idealists
would say. Nor is he the passive observer of all things, as the objective
idealists and materialists would say. The Quality which creates the world
emerges as a relationship between man and his experience. He is a
participant in the creation of all things. The measure of all things...it
fits. And they taught rhetoric...that fits.

...

See?


Marsha:
See what?  You've offered words, and I do see them as evidence that
Protagoras and RMP were not relativists.  To me 'Man is the measure of all
things.' means that Protagoras, and the early Sophists, were relativists and
RMP agrees with them.  Not the "source" of all things, but the measurer of
all things, meaning measured relative to their experience of them,
participators.  From Wiki: 'The term (relativism) often refers to truth
relativism, which is the doctrine that there are no absolute truths, i.e.,
that truth is always relative to some particular frame of reference, such as
a language or a culture.'  And not an ethical relativism where anything
goes, but one where man should participate using intelligence to determine
the best course of action, arête.