[MD] BBC documentary 'the trap'

[Ian Glendinning]

Interesting again DMB, very interesting.

Don't know where to start. I will happily respond to each point if you wish ...

Just three for starters ...

(1) Where have I ever defended Dawkins ... I in fact regularly attack
him and his hyper-objective reductionist viewpoint as being a major
part of the problem ... one of the few people I can be bothered to
actually attack in fact. (In fact I recall you attacking me for daring
to attack him in the "End of Faith" debates a year or two ago.)

(2) I don't doubt your Rand friend reports what you say. I'm defending
game theory (and system theory and network theory and social
evolutionary models like the MoQ - well post-Darwin). What I'm not
defending is people who put dumb objective (SOMist) assumptions about
what the "rational agents" are in these models. I'm also as is my
habit, pointing out that demonizing Nash (or anyone else individually)
as the sole creator of either the theories, or the defense and
economic applications that took them up, as so simplistic that it is
unhelpful.

(3) I'm not suggesting either that these misguided assumptions are no
longer operable in mainstream economics and politics (right or
liberal). What I'm doing is saying, that if we identify the wrong
problem - like luddites - smash the computers and tools, rather than
the dumb ideas people put them into use for, then we are unlikely to
achieve a better solution. And in fact I'm doing a lot more than that
- I am active in several campaigns and other forums via my blog in
actively bringing "autistic economics" and the like and the "amoral"
value-less mis-application of "science" to the attention of as many
people in positions of power and influence as I can.

(PS - Anyone manage to see episode 2. I can't seem to get that one to
work. Episode 3, by the way seems to support my view of the
"simplistication" and hypocrisy problems - we can discuss that too.)

Dave, if you can spare my sensitive soul your withering personally
directed sarcsam, I would gladly debate the points in this thread in
much further detail. They are very close to my heart, in fixing what
is rotten in the state of global economics and politics - there is no
other game in town for the foreseeable.

Regards
Ian


On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:26 PM, david buchanan<dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ian said to Craig:
> I did try to point out that (with the obvious political motivations) it blurred right across from poker, fuck-you, through prisoners dilemma and the hostage / valuable dilemmas ... that any actual value of game theories (and later systems and network theories) were simplisticated out of all recognition.
>
>
> dmb says:
> This reminds me of the times you've tried to defend the genetic reductionism of Richard Dawkins, social Darwinism, systems theory and a whole bunch of intellectual garbage that represents the kind of amoral rationality that Pirsig has identified as a cultural crisis. It's drivel, man.
> On top of that, I happen to be good friends with a tenured professor of economics who also works as an associate at Rand. We talked about the model of human behavior that comes out of Nash's equations and I can tell you that they still form the basis of economic theory in this country. And if you want a "common sense" assessment, all you have to do is listen to what today's conservatives are saying. They're giving voice to Hayek and Nash's vision in the current health care debate and you can also hear it in the voices of the conservatives in this forum. Platt's admiration of Ayn Rand springs to mind. To suggest that these theories are no longer operable or that it's no longer a problem, in my opinion, only shows that you're not paying attention or that you don't understand how the implications of those theories continue to play themselves out on a daily basis.
> I mean, dude, you are swallowing some awful, awful stuff and apparently don't realize how or why it's so rotten. Buy a clue, rent a hunch or something, will you? Jeez.
>
>
>
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