[MD] Marsha's Relativism

[MarshaV]

Matt,

I gave my most honest answer.  Should I make something up for the boys so
they can decide winner or loser?  Honestly, I'd rather be dancing.  What the
heck would it mean if I made the pronouncement, 'Thou Shall Not Kill!' or
'Justice for All!'?  Look around you, you masters of the universe.   

I really believe Mr. Pirsig when he says the best way to change society is
to change yourself, improving yourself using head, heart and hands.  And I
believe Mr. Pirsig when he says following Dynamic Quality is the moral thing
to do, this quality moment will be followed by the next quality moment. All
this intellectual exploring is very interesting, I really love it, but it is
caring that really makes the difference.  Quality is to be found in
immediate experience. 

Sorry to disappoint you, but the answer was as honest as could be.   



Marsha  


 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Matt Kundert
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:38 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Marsha's Relativism


Well, I don't know Marsha, I think you're being a little harsh--I think
Steve is just genuinely interested in figuring out where you're at (not
everyone is).  I mean, a few moments ago everybody was asking for a
definition of relativism, including you, and this was Steve's attempt to
give one.

> From: valkyr at att.net
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:43:37 -0400
> Subject: Re: [MD] Marsha's Relativism
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> What is this but a version of the Aristotelian Two-Step?  If you would
like
> a serious response, I  might answer yes, no and all of the above.  Or I
> might think this from LILA is a suitable answer:  
> 
> "While sustaining biological and social patterns
>  Kill all intellectual patterns.
>  Kill them completely
>  And then follow Dynamic Quality
>  And morality will be served."
>     (RMP, Chapter 32)
> 
> 
>  
>  
> Marsha 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Steve Peterson
> Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:02 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: [MD] Marsha's Relativism
> 
> Hi Marsha, DMB,
> 
> Do you believe that moral assertions can have truth-value? For example, 
> do you see statements like "slavery is evil" as either true or false in 
> the same way that assertions of fact such as "2 is the smallest prime 
> number" is either true or false?
> 
> If you take X to be some such proposition, do you see any of the 
> following to be problematic?
> (1) Bob is justified in believing X given his context, but X is not 
> true.
> (2) X is true for Bob but not true for Rich
> (3) I used to be justified in believing X, but X is not true and never 
> was true.
> (4) I am now justified in believing X, but X may turn out to be false
> 
> I would say that if you see no problem with any of these, your view 
> would typically be called relativism. I think that anyone who objects 
> to 2 but sees nothing wrong with 1, 3, or 4 is using the usual 
> understanding of truth and it's relationship to justification but may 
> still be called relativism by some. If so, I would call this second 
> version of relativism the good kind and the first version the bad kind.
> 
> The bad kind of relativism says that a proposition can be true to one 
> person and false to another while the good kind admits that belief in a 
> proposition may be justified for one person but not justified for 
> another but holds that truth is another matter entirely. The cure for 
> the bad kind of relativism may simply be to say, "If you think that a 
> statement like 'slavery is evil' can be both true and false at the same 
> time depending on who makes the assertion, then I don't think we both 
> mean the same thing when we use the word 'true.'"
> 
> Best,
> Steve
> 
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