[MD] requiem for a dmb

[MarshaV]

John,

Your conclusion?  Ishi's conclusion?  

There is the introvert whose need of community is limited.  And there is the
community whose need for complete agreement is great?  I think of the end of
Chapter 14 with all those boats pointing in the same direction.     


Marsha    



-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:32 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] requiem for a dmb

What assumption?   That's not an assumption, it's a conclusion based upon
the overwhelming evidence.  There's never been a human in history without
some sort of communal arrangement, and if you take a person and stick 'em on
a deserted Island, they'll create an imaginary community rather than do
without.
You ever read the story of Ishi < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishi >?  To
him
the greatest marvel of the european culture was not technology - trains,
steam engines, phone lines...  Nope.  Ishi was fascinated his whole life
with large groups of people.

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:00 PM, MarshaV <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

>
> John,
>
> >From where comes the assumption that everyone craves community?
>
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of John Carl
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 4:26 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: [MD] requiem for a dmb
>
> So once upon a time, wandering the stacks of Sierra College's three story
> library, I came across a book on psychotherapy and acting.  It was
actually
> my first introduction to Freud's thinking in some detail, and dealt with
> the
> concept of ego death and stage fright.  The author talked about Olivier's
> stage fright, and if stage fright was simply fear of failing, a great and
> experienced actor would be over it by now.  We conceptualize and express
it
> as fear of failing, but it is more subtle than that.  In order for a self
> to
> be born on stage, a self carrying the actor must die, and that self
doesn't
> want to die - hence the sublimated anxiety and vomiting and nervousness.
> Now Lawrence Olivier was a great actor, who, it is said, could make you
cry
> just by reading the telephone book.  I'm not sure if that's really true,
> but
> I do know that Robert M. Pirsig could get an engineer misty-eyed over a
> technical manual.  And when Phaedrus experienced his stage fright as a
> teacher, his own analysis of himself is problematic.  Sometimes it is
> harder
> to know ourselves than we can imagine, and if we're doubly smart, doubly
> so.
>  Pirsig himself attributes it to being "a loner", "uncomfortable with
> people", but I have a different insight.
>
> Gleaned from  Peck's, A different Drum, of course.  A methodology of
> community building.  In this methodology, one of the most difficult
> transitions for a group to make is into this egoless place where all the
> individual selves "die" a little bit, so that they can constitute a
greater
> whole - a large dynamic leap into a much more comprehensive social latch,
I
> guess in MoQ terms.  But the process often exhibits exactly like this
stage
> fright phenomena, and I believe all the evidence points to  Phaedrus
> experiencing in his teaching, the best kind of learning community -
wherein
> all were engaged and involved.  It is termed, a group of all leaders and
> Phaedrus demonstrated that very attribute when the administrator/other
> teacher pokes his head in the door and asks what all the hullaballo0o is
> about and Phaedrus just says, "We've come across a hard question."  And
its
> like he's not in control anymore.  He's standing there admitting that they
> are all learning together.  It is, in fact, a true community.  Once you've
> been a part of that process and bonded like that with a group of people,
> its
> hard to forget.  Even years later, coming back to the scene of all  this
> and
> finding a former student who almost tells him that him not being a teacher
> anymore is insane.
>
> She knows and he knows that there was a lot more going on back then than
> "normal college".
>
>  true community was happening in those classrooms.
>
> Or perhaps it was just a stage, for actors to play parts.
>
> Or perhaps there is no functional difference.
>
> In other words, Metaphysics ain't for sissies.
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
> So...  where was I at?  After such a lengthy preamble and all I hope I
have
> something meaningful to say about the death of a teacher's pet, but that
> comes across as much more snide than I mean it to be.  Which is perhaps
> rhetorically fitting but I prefer accuracy in expression of my intent, to
> rhetorical flourish,  and truly I'm mainly saddened and grieved.  A little
> bit of my hopes and dreams for dialogue have died today, on seeing DMB's
> notice of resignation. Just on the very day I checked out a whole book
full
> of correspondence between Royce and James.
>
> But on reflection, its probably for the best.  I've started to feel sorry
> for him for the effects of bring caught in a trap, not of his own
devising.
> It is an ego trap when you get this public pat on the head and you find
> yourself set up as the designated target.  Mr. "Good Hands" now has to
> defend his position interminably.  Until eventually some kid gunning for
> your ass who has been practicing out behind the woodshed sneaks up and
> shoots you in the back to earn his own reputation.
>
>  ain't many *old* gunslingers in Deadwood.
>
> Metaphysics ain't for sissies.
>
> Caught in such a trap, you have few options  besides gnawing you're own
leg
> off.  Heck, I'd rather just quit on some level.  And it makes sense to me
> that Dave is showing some wisdom in doing just that.
>
> There's a part of ZAMM where Chris and his dad are climbing a mountain,
and
> his dad is intellectualizing the aspects of ego-climbing which cause
> missteps.  Reading that, part of me wants to step in a help carry the son,
> I
> want all this explained to him, patiently, so he can understand and just
> take that one step at a time and keep going up steadily.  I want to help
> him.
>
> All his dad does is watch him zoom zoom zoom up the mountain, crowing from
> the heights "Look how much higher I am than you!"  I want dad to step in,
> but dad doesn't.  Dad just lets his son's energy carry him as far as it
> can,
> to his own lesson, learned in his own body, in his own time.  Probably a
> smart dad.  No wonder they say Metaphysics ain't for sissies.
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