[MD] The relativity of the MoQ

[Andre Broersen]

Hi All,

I should say something, I suppose, since I suggested the tread 'cos I was
interested. Acces to my computer stopped me fromearlier responses and I do
thank those who did, Ron, Steve etc.
Many things have been said since and dmb has departed as well.

Re Dave: too much hay on the fork every time he responded,... too many
quotes as well. I was more interested in dmb's interpretation than Pirsig's
statements. A few lines would have sufficed but all we got were
(repeated) static patterns...and loads of them.
Still I am a bit sad he's gone. One of those 'pullers to stay in the path'
people. But I thought about that today...how can you stray within the
context of the MoQ? Either something has quality or (low) quality.

The influence of Eastern mysticism on the development of the MoQ cannot be
overestimated.Some of us do not realise this. The MoQ, as Pirsig has
intended it, can be said to be an attempt at bridging the void between the
East and the West. ( I gather this from Pirsig who has suggested that
Northrop's The Meeting of East and West has greatly influenced him...and he
is some sort of a pupil... still...).

The notion of Quality, the Tao, the Void suggests a fundamental unity...an
All from which it originates and to which we shall, inevitably return. Ham
asked, at one stage what is the cause. Scientists would simply say: 'A
quantum fluctuation!'. Are you happy with this Ham?? It was a quantum
fluctuation arising from Quality, the Tao, the Void, the Vessel that
contains Everything. Empty yet fertile. Are you happy with this Ham?? Of
course not, because it does not fit your mind-set... which is some sort of
value sensibility, proprietary agent who has to sense it first. Nothing will
satisfy you outside of this mind- set. Again: what are you doing here on
this MoQ discuss??

The All is perfect harmony...that which is a guiding light for Quality and
that towards we, as patterns (individuated/ diferrentiated) of quality seek
to accomplish. To fuse the parts back into the waves. Pirsig has gives us a
tremendous push forward into the directions of waves by pointing towards the
paradoxes (the shattered waves) and giving us an idea of how to go about
fusing those parts back together again. He has given us examples of how to
fuse age old paradoxes  ... produced by a S/O division,  which has given us
a deeper knowledge (insight) of reality. The underlying theme of which is a
restoration of harmony to that which has been shattered (by the quantum
fluctuation).

Platt doesn't  want to hear of this...to him (and Ham)  any sort of
togetherness (expression of common roots, descendency/ sharing of
origins through mythology, upbringing,thought patterns, belief, culture etc,
etc)  is communal (ism) , collectiv (ism), commun(ism).
Anything that may bring us a little closer together as human becomings is
rejected out of hand. Keep up the divisions, individual freedom
(misunderstanding freedom... read Pirsig Platt and quote me the appropriate
line...but, as a good Eastern influence...[as Pirsig suggests his words
should be understood] also read between the lines!!!).

Own up PLatt as you always have avoided...defending your selfrighteous,
individualistic, self-assertive notions of freedom doing nothing more that
inflating a leaky ego drawing everything unto itself and, failing keep on,
screeming harder and harder and pointing the finger at anyone who may be
responsible for deflating your ego because you have to find, by blaming
everything and everybody else not thinking alike you, a culprit that keeps
the ego pump down. And you say: All is One.
Do you realise that this is the perfection of mystical communal thinking?

I think the MoQ is a fusion. Not any one culture is perfect, some are more
conducive to allowing DQ than other cultures...but here we are talking of DQ
as GOOD ( sorry Platt and Ham!!)...as creating those conditions to set up
deeper understandings... deepening our awareness...our consciousness of that
which is reality.

Consciousness is selective awareness. Selective awareness brought about by
those processes Pirsig talks about in ZMM. Through Lila he has cleared a
path for us all to tred and expand our own levels of consciousness.
Pirsig never said: 'Follow me!!' The choice is up to us which path we want
to follow...through the head, heart and hand or some other way.

Of course the MoQ is Pirsig's philosophy...however one's ideas always stand
upon the shoulders of someone else's. You cannot hold that against him or
Jesus, or Einstein or the Buddha, Newton, Whitman, Bohm, Sidis, Muhammed,
me, you or anyone else

Kill all intellectual patterns (including the MoQ!!) completely, follow DQ
and morality will be served.

Thing is, when you die, you are the only one that dies... no one else is
there for you or with you.. 'And in the end, the love you take , is equal to
the love you make'.

Love is All
Andre