[MD] Why isn't the hot stove obvious?

[Bruce Underwood]

IMO, sitting on the hot stove represents a “value event” that triggers a reaction that demonstrates the “memory” within the biological level of static quality.  The reaction is not part of social or  intellectual levels and does not have to be evaluated before a response is made.  IMO, a “value event” may be part of dynamic quality, but I think dynamic quality would be something different: perhaps sitting on a stove does not trigger a response because the individual has developed an “assbestos” buttocks. That would be dynamic and would become static quality if such a trait would become part of the norm where groups of people could sit on hot stoves.

Bruce Underwood

> From: skutvik at online.no
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 17:54:47 +0100
> Subject: Re: [MD] Why isn't the hot stove obvious?
> 
> Mary and all who have responded to the "Hot Stove" issue.
> 
> 
> IMO that "parable" is from a very early stage akin to ZAMM's "Leading 
> Edge" example and very useful there, but in LILA where the final MOQ 
> is presented becomes an enigma. It was intended as a demonstration 
> of how immediate Value is and in ZAMM where SOM (called 
> "intellect") was DQ'a sole static fall-out (..and what blocks out DQ) in 
> the MOQ, however, jumping from hot places becomes the workings of 
> the (biological) autonomous neural system. Admittedly, biology is more 
> basic than society and intellect, but nevertheless a static level, so 
> Pirsig's obsession with the Reality=Quality issue obscures the MOQ. .
> 
> An aside: The autonomous neural system is interesting enough. Some 
> of you may know the Benjamin Libet experiments that created such a 
> furor in the eighties. The signal propagation through nerves isn't very 
> fast, it takes (I believe) half a second  from toe to brain, but stepping 
> on a "hot stove" makes you jump immediately - while the signal only is 
> at knee level. So it's not any brain involved, but now comes the really 
> weird part. WHEN the signal finally reaches the brain it "forwards" the 
> feeling of pain in time so as to match the moment you step on the 
> tack. This is really "occult". 
> 
> Why don't we see "Quality coming"?:  
> 
>> If all is Quality, why can't we see it coming?  What do we lack in order
>> to predict the ultimate outcome or goal of Quality?  At the various
>> levels, why do we not universally agree on what the highest Quality
>> outcome would be? Why, for example, has there been recent disagreement
>> here surrounding the best behavior of government?  Should we not be able
>> to all equally discern this?  Shouldn't recognition of Quality at all
>> levels be as intuitive as the hot stove?
> 
> NB. Quality is MOQ's DQ)
> 
> Mary speaks much like Phaedrus in ZAMM: "Why don't we 
> intellectually recognize Quality"? And the answer is that INTELLECT IS 
> SOM where quality is a less-than-real subjective phenomenon. Young 
> Phaedrus realized this and presented an alternative MOQ where 
> SOM=intellect, but for some reason Pirsig of LILA de-fused this by the 
> bland mind-like intellectual level which leaves the MOQ as 
> revolutionary as a cup of old tea.
> 
> I don't know if Mary is the address here, but just for the gallery:
> 
> For the MOQ to be revolutionary SOM must be made its highest static 
> level - all of it, every last bit!! If SOM is made one intellectual pattern 
> and the MOQ another, the 4th. level becomes SOM's mind - a mental 
> container where ideas reside -  and SOM goes on unperturbed. 
> 
> For Pirsig the Reality=Quality issue and proofs thereof  was his 
> obsession. If that was established he regarded the mission as 
> accomplished, the MOQ just one possible ordering of Quality. But the 
> Reality=Quality is part and parcel of the MOQ, namely its first axiom 
> and axioms can't be proved. The proof is in the  result of such a 
> quality-ordered universe, and in that respect the MOQ (in its true SOL 
> interpretation) is matchless. I haven't found one single weak point. 
> 
> Bodvar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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