[MD] The MOQ and religions.

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Steve

In my posting frenzy

22 Dec. u wrote to Matt:

Who had written (I believe):
> > For instance, if social patterns are "unconscious copying
> > of behavior" and intellectual patterns "unconscious
> > copying of rationales of behavior, then does this suggest
> > that intellectual patterns might usurp our behavior
> > entirely if we were to become entirely guided by
> > rationales of behavior?  Or does the "unconscious" bit
> > signify a trait we are unlikely to shake, and therefore such
> > a dream (well into its third millennium) equally unlikely?

"Unconscious copying"? My foot! There is no consciousness in the 
MOQ. 

Steve: 
> I agree with Pirsig that social patterns evolved prior to intellectual
> patterns. I just don't think that picking a moment in time for the
> occurence of the first intellectual pattern is important especially
> since this same evolution of patterns occurs every day as biological
> babies begin to participate in social patterns and later begin to
> participate in intellectual patterns. I also think that if we all
> agree that the first intellectual pattern occurred on such and such a
> date, we would still have little idea about what is meant by a social
> pattern as opposed to an intellectual pattern which was Mary's
> original question.

What about the event described in ZAMM as SOM emerging from the 
Aretê past, isn't this a pretty convincing "candidate for the occurrence 
of the intellectual level from the social ditto? A "moment in time" 
depends, this transition definitely did not happen overnight, Western 
philosophy history often begins with Thales (585 BC) but there may 
have been a whole string of thinkers of whom the earliest began to 
doubt the Greek mythological-social past. We know from Homer's 
"Iliad" that it describes the said past, but then no one is sure when he 
lived, maybe it was his longing for a the good old days.

Bodvar


PS
This is the Western "intellect", regarding the Oriental ditto I think Pirsig 
(in the PT letter) is just right about the Vedic-Upanishad transition 
describes it well  .... except for this being non-S/O which is plain 
impossible, philosophy IS a search for objective truth. However, it did 
not expand into a SOM "over there".