[MD] Why isn't the hot stove obvious?

[MarshaV]

Hi Bo,

What is this Jesus pattern you write of?  Do you consider Jesus an intellectual pattern?   If yes, how so?


Marsha




On Dec 28, 2009, at 3:52 AM, skutvik at online.no wrote:

> Hi John
> 
> 27 Dec. I had said to Ron: 
> 
>>> The intellectual level springs from the social level  
> 
> John:
>> What means this "springs"?
> 
> To stay with the season: Jesus, is THAT now an issue of dissent? 
> 
>> A buncha social apes were sitting around one day, listening to
>> Socrates and suddenly BOING, out pops an intellectual pattern like a
>> Jack-in-the-box?
> 
> Likewise, and I don't feel called on to to start kindergarten lecturing 
> with you again. 
> 
>> That makes as much sense as a buncha carbon springing into the shape
>> of a chemistry professor.
> 
> You have got THAT right at least, then maybe you'll be kind enough 
> to read Pirsig's next passage. 
> 
> Bo before:
>>> 2 and 2 is 4 in social-steeped  cultures as it is in
>>> intellect-steeped dittos, there are even animals that can count so
>>> logic - AKA intelligence - is used by the biological level too.
> 
> John:
>> Arghhh!!  Biology doesn't count, society does.  Amoebas are
>> biological, but too stupid to count.  Cats however, know how many
>> kittens they've got, as I can, and have, demonstrated empirically when
>> I give one of my cat's kittens away and she (the cat's mother) goes
>> around mewing for days looking for the lost.
> 
> OK, I tried to say that INTELLIGENCE occurred with biological neural 
> complexity AKA "brain". So plants, single cell- and multi-celled 
> organisms up to a certain point were/still are as dumb as you are ;-) 
> 
>> There are stories even of horses doing simple addition for a show, but
>> what they are really counting on is the satisfied relief in their
>> owners face when they get to the right number.
> 
> Maybe not, but some animals "think" and that means applying logic 
> including 2+2=4, they do not think by way of language "Let's see .. 
> hmmm, hmmm... etc" but they for sure manipulate former experience 
> in the form of images, smell, and/or other sense impressions. And ... 
> flex whatever intelligence you have ... it is this "intelligence = 
> intellect" fallacy that have been this discussion's hang up for a 
> decade. It seems impossible to snap out of the 4th. level as thinking 
> or logic.     
> 
>> Your problem Bo, is you can't see when to stop.  You seem to be
>> searching for your master's satisfaction, with no results as yet.  So
>> you keep pawing the turf.
> 
> I magnanimously overlook this. ;-)
> 
> 
>> In the MoQ, logic is a tool, value is the center.  In SOM, value is a
>> tool and logic is the center.
> 
> In the MOQ everything is static value patterns FYI, and as said 
> intelligence is a mercenary that serves all static levels. SOM (or 
> intellect) its latest employer why you all seem bent on intelligence as 
> intellect, You inadvertently put the finger on the sore spot. Thanks.
> 
> Bo before:
>>> Language and logic are intelligence's tools, but intelligence can serve
>>> any master. Social level people found (still find) it perfectly logical
>>> that existence is created by god(s) while intellect-based people find it
>>> logical that it is a coincidence 
> 
> John: 
>> I'd say that's a pretty confusing mishmash of conceptualization there,
>> but we're already past it  so why bother trying to analyze confusion
>> built upon error?  Keep it Simple, should be the metaphysical dictum at
>> the forefront of all our frontal lobes.  Just memorize the following
>> and you'll see a satisfied look on your trainers face: A metaphysics of
>> Quality is a value centered metaphysics not logic centered. 
> 
> By jettisoning logic the MOQ may recruit a few lesser minds (they are 
> already assembled :) but that will certainly destroy it. Why - I wonder - 
> do you see the SOL interpretation as complicating? I clears away tons 
> of misunderstanding and confusion. But as the film bad-guy said after 
> being robbed of his newly-mixed plague: "Please let me have my 
> illness back"!  Who wants clarity? 
> 
> Bodvar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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