[MD] Theism/epistemology

[skutvik at online.no]

Matt, Marsha, and all involved.

6 Feb.:

Marsha said:
> Were Heraclitus, Parmenides, Plato or Aristotle's philosophy theistic?

Matt replied:
> I take this to be a good example of a "mu" question, at least one that
> doesn't have a clear cut answer because of intellectual evolution.

> We all remember that Pirsig, following Aristotle, said that "first
> philosophy" is called "metaphysics."  We should bear in mind that
> Aristotle's redactor is the one that named that collection of
> manuscripts "Metaphysics."  What did Aristotle actually call "first
> philosophy" in the Metaphysics?

I'm a bit frustrated how you (all) refrain from using the MOQ on the 
"theism" question. Pirsig says that "no one living in an ordered can 
avoid metaphysics", meaning that humankind's hallmark is that of 
ordering their existence. Anthropologists have visited the remotest 
tribes and they invariably find an explanation of the tribe's origin 
and destiny. However, Pirsig then went on to undermine this with 
his metaphysics as some menu different from the real food which 
is the Aristotelian SOM metaphysics of an objective reality about 
which mankind makes up theories.

In a MOQ context the beginning of ordering existence is identical 
to the emergence of the 3rd. level. Nothing about any robotic 
"copying" or whatever silly definitions of "social" that has 
circulated, but simply seeing beyond the immediate biological 
hungry-eat, tired-sleep ...etc. existence. The ordering has varied 
wildly from the first animism variety where everything was alive, to 
the more elaborate mythologies with a god for every aspect of 
existence to the latest stage, the monotheist one. 

Out of this rose the intellectual level's subject/object attitude, 
starting with the Greek thinkers' search for eternal principles (so 
convincingly described in ZAMM) meaning an explanation not 
based on animism, mythology or theology, but on principles that 
transcend all this, resulting in science, knowledge, the objective, 
skeptical attitude that still dominates the West (thank God;-) This 
is of course the SOL interpretation of intellect, but can it be 
interpreted otherwise?

If anyone points to the scientific "ordering" merely being another 
mythology, yes, according to the MOQ each level is out of- the 
former level - building on it, yet revolting against it - so deep down 
intellect shows social roots, but that's not just the 4th. level, society 
has biological roots and biology has inorganic. That's what static 
means. 

IMO

Bo