[MD] Theism/epistemology

[X Acto]

MP,
Quality, God, betterness, source, are all labels in the understanding of mystical expereince.
Mystical expereince "is". I am therefore I am. this is the only real observable concept of any kind
of truth or certainty, all roads of explaination and inquiry stem from it. Therefore most of us
here do not go in too much for any kind of explaination, theistic, metaphysical or otherwise,
we go for the development of our own personal individual understanding of our own experience.
Nothing more. THIS is the power of the MoQ, not in converting nor explaining any sort of a 
revealed truth in any sort of a universal understanding. MoQ guides us in inquiry of our own experience.

You see, theism does encourage a personal relationship with god, but lets not forget that god is
a particular universal understanding of experience. 

-Ron
I




________________________________
From: X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk..org
Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2009 1:04:43 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Theism/epistemology

MP,
I think you failed to read the remainder of that post. Theisim is the belief in an external deity.
Mystical expereince however is the generator of theism, as it is the generator of science
and art. Essentialism is essentialism despite cultural boundaries. Theism is a form of essentialism.
MoQ rejects essentialism.Moq is nihilistic.It does not subscribe to any form of absolute univerals
other than the empirical fact of mystical experience. It is immediately verifyable. Therefore Quality
is not God but the creator of the concept of God.

If you will remember, you asked for a definition to agree on. I simply put the most
encompassing and general ones out there, I did'nt write 'em.

-Ron




________________________________
From: Michael Poloukhine <moq at poloukhine.com>
To: moq_discuss at lists.moqtalk.org
Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2009 12:24:47 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Theism/epistemology

> X Acto 
> Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a
> personal God as creator and ruler of the world.
> -dictionary

MP: "dictionary" ? Nice sourcing there ;-)

American Heritage is the only dictionary that adds this "especially" clause. 
Funny you should have randomly found that definition above all the others 
which leave theism in the culturally generic form. Aren't scientists supposed to 
fit the theory to the facts, not the other way 'round ;-) And while we are at it... 
since when are dictionaries the end-all of meaning? Are they not simply cultural 
time-sensitive snapshots of linguistic usage? Surely meaning as we here can 
understand it is not defined exclusively by "dictionary?"

But if dwelling among dictionary meanings, check those other definitions... they 
are without such a clause. And when they are "as opposed to atheism" the 
definition is *always* stripped of the "especially" clause. At least *try* to 
acknowledge that one *can* use the definition stripped of cultural specificity, 
and that if one is to compare it to atheism, one *must* do so to keep the 
experiment "controlled." Why does atheism have the privilege of being a-
cultural in scope while theism does not? This is stacking the cards against 
theism from a decidedly atheistic perspective. It not good science.

I do not deny that belief in God is culturally derived. What I am saying is that 
belief in g*d is deeper than culture. That it is some sort of inner human drive to 
seek transcendence. I dare say it is an innate (an not un-importantly notably 
unique) human drive to seek Quality in existence, Quality that transcends 
existence. That this need becomes manifest in culture and brings us God is not 
in question, but in its pure form it it is something else (hence: g*d). In my 
pedantry on this topic I am simply seeking to delve into what that something 
else is, esp. v.v. MoQ's Quality.

And on topic; it is as such distinctly different from epistemology; it is precisely a 
drive to transcend the epistemological tableau in its entirety. Akin to the  
difference between knowledge and understanding.




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