[MD] Theism/epistemology

[MarshaV]

At 06:47 PM 2/7/2009, you wrote:
> > > > > > > > >[Marsha]
> > > > > > > > >Within the MOQ, theism, god and religion are static patterns
>of
> > > > > > > > > value.
> > > > > > > > >[Krimel]
> > > > > > > > >What is a static pattern?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Marsha:
> > > > > > > >A conceptual construct, or a static pattern of value.  Do you
> > > > > > like paradox?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >[Krimel]
> > > > > > > >What is a conceptual construct?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >[Marsha]
> > > > > > >Why don't you tell me.  You know you want to...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >[Krimel]
> > > > > > >Sounds like just a thought.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Marsha
> > > > > >A mental construct, a static pattern of value.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >[Krimel]
> > > > > >Constructed of what?
> > > > >
> > > > >Marsha
> > > > >Constructed of emptiness which dependent arising.
> > > > >
> > > > >[Krimel]
> > > > >"Constructed" of emptiness? Emptiness arising? Dependant on what?
> > > >
> > > >[Marsha]
> > > >Dependent arising:
> > > >
> > > >This is the understanding that any phenomenon exists only because of
> > > >the existence of other phenomena in an incredibly complex web of
> > > >cause and effect covering time past, time present and time future.
> > > >This concept of a web is symbolized by Indra's net, a
> > > >multidimensional spider's web on which lies an infinite amount of dew
> > > >drops or jewels, and in these are reflected the reflections of all
> > > >the other drops of dew ad infinitum.
> > > >
> > > >Stated in another way, everything depends on everything else. A human
> > > >being's existence in any given moment is dependent on the condition
> > > >of everything else in the world at that moment, but in an equally
> > > >significant way, the condition of everything in the world in that
> > > >moment depends conversely on the character and condition of that
> > > >human being. Everything in the Universe is interconnected through the
> > > >web of cause and effect such that the whole and the parts are
> > > >mutually interdependent. The character and condition of entities at
> > > >any given time are intimately connected with the character and
> > > >condition of all other entities that superficially may appear to be
> > > >unconnected or unrelated.
> > > >
> > > >[Krimel]
> > > >But if it's all just concepts from whence do they arises? Other
>concepts?
> > > >And where do they reside? More concepts? What sort of "existence" are
>you
> > > >talking about? What is a phenomenon?
> > >
> > >Marsha
> > >All conventional phenomena are conceptually designated, depending for
> > >whatever identity and existence they have on such designation (static
> > >pattern of value), and that this merely imputed status is their
> > >ultimate nature.
> > >
> > >[Krimel]
> > >So conventional phenomena are more concepts? But they have an ultimate
> > >nature beyond being concepts?
> >
> >[Marsha]
> >Things from there own side are free from imputation.  Nothing can be
> >said from their side.
> >
> >[Krimel]
> >Which side is which? A thing? I thought there were no things, just
>concepts?
> >Which side can nothing be said from? Who or what would do the imputing?
>
>[Marsha]
>External phenomena from their own side are free from imputation.
>Nothing can be said from the external side.
>
>[Krimel]
>How can phenomena be anywhere but inside? Isn't the external side a pattern?
>Why can't we talk about it?


No value in talking about it anymore.  Muster up some scientific 
materialism for the crowd.


Marsha





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