[MD] Theism/epistemology

[Michael Poloukhine]

> Ron wrote
> By asserting your closing phrase "But I'm game to discuss. Change of topic subject?"
> you imply that you have the arguement sewn up and that your view is THE view
> end of discussion.. This is the arguement against theists you are
> illustrating rather well.
MP: No! No! LoL. Sorry!  All I was asking was whether or not our list 
correspondence should have its subject changed from "Theism/epistemology" 
to some other subject. 

> Ron wrote:
> MP: "We *cannot* escape culture while remaining human." and
> 
> MP: "I dare say it is an innate (an not un-importantly notably 
> unique) human drive to seek Quality in existence, Quality that
> transcends existence."
> ?
> Ron: My arguement then using your exact words, if we can not escape culture
> while remaining human , in other words human existence, then culture
> defines human existence, therefore transcendence of human existence IS
> transcendence of culture.
MP: We cannot escape air while remaining human, but air does not define 
human existence. Human drive to transcendence is *not* a drive to transcend 
only culture any more than it is a drive to transcend only air.  So, no... I do not 
accept all of your conclusions from thence forward with respect to human 
transcendence being limited to just culture. 

I do however accept the idea that the human drive to transcendence is 
intimately related to what I understand Pirsig identifies in his concept of Quality.

> Ron: 
> This is a frightening proposition I know, for it leaves everything we know and
> feel safe about behind. It challnges us to take responsibility for our own expereince
> and accept the uncertainty of life, this is where "intent" come into the picture.
> Forming direction and purpose for ones own life utilizing the most practicale
> cultural values as they effect our immediate expereince.
MP: But I don't find that frightening in the least. In fact it is how I have been 
raised in my faith in a theistic context. Its not easy, that I'll grant you. One of my 
most common prayers is "Lord I believe, help my unbelief." It is admittedly 
overtly theistic in nature, but nonetheless nothing less than a self motivational 
mantra to open oneself to Quality experience.