[MD] Faith/Skepticism

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Kieffer

16 Feb. you commented my "thesis" that only the Western culture 
has developed religious skepticism - or skepticism re. religions:

Bo before:
> > I don't know of any other religion/cultures that has such a schism.
> > There surely are secular Jews and ditto Muslims but these just seem
> > indifferent to religion, not out to debunk it like the scientific
> > skeptics constantly are.
 
KO:
> You may be quite wrong about that!

Wish you were a bit more specific. But note that it's the "Semitic" 
type religion which is my "target". A God signing pacts with chosen 
peoples, yet, in spite of creating worlds is sensitive to human 
opinion... etc.  Eastern type wisdom "religion"has transcended this 
(that I deem) social belief) and intellectual skepticism. 

But the real mystery - if I may repeat - is Christendom's internal 
split, the Old and New Testament. The said Judaism and Islam 
may have people who give a damn, but nothing like "our" liberal 
clergymen and -women (only the latter is outrageous) who hardly 
speak about God, just about the good person Jesus. Some of 
them go on to do scientific research about the bible, how it has 
gone through translations and distortions, as well as about Jesus 
how he may not have done the wonders, and regards his - you 
know - "conception" as just myth ... and so on. These dominates 
the "Church of Norway" but even so there are pastors and bishops 
who thumps the bible particularly regarding homosexuality. I 
attributed this internal Christian split to the social-intellectual 
struggle (below). 

But you objected:   
> I dont think so Bo; i cant see the MoQ in that light; from a certain
> point of view i can see validity in what you say but to use opinion to
> underpin your clarification / re-categorisation of the levels? Yours
> is an evolutionary MoQ - I prefer the Classic MoQ (haha) whereby all
> human experience has two polarised aspects - mind and matter. I think
> this fits well with evolutiory theory cf. memes and genes.

"..the Classic MoQ () whereby all human experience has two 
polarised aspects - mind and matter..." ?  At least you are honest. 
Classic - orthodox (I call) - MOQ still subscribe to the SOM!!! I just 
had a hunch before, now it's affirmed. 

> It may be because those cultures/religions are more binding than for
> instance the Anglican that you dont see more vocal objections - but
> there are some Omid Djalil - always believe it - you are
> indestructible<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XULtWR37Glk>who are more
> outspoken.

I had problems with this paragraph, but about the Muslim culture 
being more "binding" you can bet (your life) on, and this raises 
another question. How will European Islam develop, will they - like 
the Jews of old  - remain unassimilable and stick to their rituals 
which is the social level's hallmark. We know that in Jewdom and 
Islam, humans have no soul that can be saved by faith (this is 
SOM's "religious" impact on Christendom) they have to perform 
the rituals to be Jews and/or Muslims.     

I will check the link when I reach civilization in a day or two .

Bo