[MD] new blog

[francisco albano]

Welcome!

Beautiful post.

Proofs for the existence of God and proofs for non-existence of God may be below zero, but proofs for his/her existence many degrees higher. Also, there is the experience of theists in the mode of meditation-comtemplation, confirmed by peers, their sangha, that should be considered by philosphy. Ultimately, the ground is faith,  for theism. And if theism helps to make people good, then let it be. Indeed, "Stasis in theism is what causes the "bad" aspects of theism, not theism itself." Plus other factors

Paco.



May Yahweh bless you and keep you!
May Yahweh let  his face shine on you, and be gracious to you!
May Yahweh look kindly on you, and give you his peace!  (Num. 6:24-26)




________________________________
From: Michael Poloukhine <moq at poloukhine.com>
To: moq_discuss at lists.moqtalk.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 10:05:50 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] new blog

Steve,

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, I'm new here, long (life long) story on how I got 
here, the short is I found the link in the 25th Anniv. edition of ZMM I recently 
read and figured I'd lurk a while and decided I'd dip in on this thread.

The implication is conflict, and by process of elimination I suspect it is conflict 
with theists. To what end? You can't prove God does not exist any more than a 
theist can prove He does. Even if you can prove a myth is false, it would 
continue. Only an alternative myth can replace a myth.

Wouldn't a "better future", ("better" defined in MoQ terms) be more likely found 
through an approach that doesn't involve any of the theisms (including "a-")? 

Another way to ask the same question; could there be a wholly atheistic world? 
A world in which there were only atheists? Atheism, by definition is the belief 
that there is no "God", but as such it MUST exist in a context where the 
existence of "God" is contemplated as possible in some manner, that is; in a 
theistic context. And while that theistic context exists, the context always 
remains a theistic one, and as such any strategy to eliminate theism through 
atheism fails.

Any atheism "strategy" fails categorically because you cannot by definition ever 
get past theism through atheism. 


btw: In the MoQ context, isn't the goal of eliminating theism a lot like saying we 
should get rid of cells because our bodies are more evolved than them? Or to 
get rid of culture because we have society? Or to get rid of society because we 
have intellect? There may be more "Quality" evolutions than theism, but if so it 
does not follow that theism needs to be eliminated. Theism in the MoQ context 
is not "bad", its more like its just not "necessary" for Dynamic quality shifts in 
society because its lower than society in MoQ evolutionary terms. It may not be 
able to help society acheive a Dynamic quality, but it does not follow that it is 
unnecessary in society. What holds back Dynamic quality is not theism, but the 
resistance to the evolution of static quality. Stasis in theism is what causes the 
"bad" aspects of theism, not theism itself.

If it becomes vestigal, or irrelevant, it no longer matters if you get rid of it or not, 
so why bother. If it isn't irrelevant or vestigal, then it does matter and you should 
not get rid of it. Just let it go where it goes, and work on the alternative higher 
quality Dynamic or static modes.


I happen to be "theistic" and while I can appreciate the status Pirsig 
evolutionary hierarchy leaves it on a lower rung, I can also appreciate that the 
same hierarchy nonetheless leaves a place for it. Its a static "latch" for a 
Dynamic quality it achieved. Take it away, and you can lose the Quality it 
achieved, which enabled subsequent Dynamic Quality.

I also happen to think that "theism"'s God is not all that much different from 
Pirsig's Quality. Its just understood, expressed and appreciated on an earlier 
MoQ evolutionary level. Its an appreciation of one and the same thing, just in a 
much older, and gradually more and more archaic evolutionary language. The 
conceptual parallels between theistic concepts and, for instance those of 
quantum physics are remarkable at times.


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