[MD] Reductionism

[MarshaV]

At 02:21 PM 7/7/2009, you wrote:

>Krimel said:
>I would say we tend to "value" meaning or the reduction of 
>uncertainty. Uncertainty is our constant dark companion. We dread it 
>and fight it with the very fiber of our being. ... Uncertainty is 
>THE philosophically significant realization of the past century. 
>Information Theory defines "meaning" as reduction in uncertainty. I 
>think it is a good definition and can be applied to almost any use of the term.
>
>Marsha replied:
>I totally disagree with this statement, and wonder how you think to 
>generalize with the  "We".  I simply do not understand how you come 
>to this conclusion.
>
>dmb says:
>John Dewey saw the desire for uncertainty as more than just 
>analogous to the organism desire for safety. In that sense, the 
>desires for safety and certainty are normal desires but they can 
>both get out of hand. Since science and technology are all about 
>prediction and control, our culture is lusts after certainty in a 
>pretty big way. Absolutists philosophies, determinist philosophies, 
>the hard sciences as well as fundamentalist religions and 
>conservative politics serve the needs of those who extremely fond of 
>certainty. While a certain level of stability is essential, I think 
>the desire for certainty almost always comes with a unhealthy 
>rigidity. It's not too much of an exaggeration to say it marks a 
>certain kind of neurosis and I think this is one of the kind of 
>desire that causes as much suffering as any desire. You know, in the 
>Buddhist sense of suffering.
>
>I don't thing reduction in uncertainty defines "meaning" at all. It 
>only defines certainty, which can be pretty meaningless when it is 
>obtained for neurotic reasons and those reasons are very, very 
>common among those who seek it. The deprivation theory of religion, 
>for example, asserts this idea with respect to faith. Psychologist 
>have found very convincing correlations between sensitivity to fear 
>and conservative political attitudes. And who doesn't know a guy who 
>studied math or engineering because he was attracted to their 
>clarity and precision?  Pagel's "experience of powerlessness" and 
>the idea that "prayer makes us feel like we can influence the divine 
>will", that we can "have some power" would be another example of 
>this same desire. Again, this is normal but it can lead us to 
>believe in all sorts of unbelievable things or to cling too tightly 
>to the things we believe. I think this is what Pirsig means by 
>"value rigidity", which can blind a guy to the obvious.
>
>Isn't it more reasonable to let go and just learn to live with some 
>degree of uncertainty, especially in those areas that are not given 
>to mathematical formulations and such? I think that's certain.

Marsha:
What seems more insane than trying to find certainty in a flow of 
life that is constant change?  What could cause more stress than to 
try to dash around attempting to make all uncertainties certain?  I 
think you are correct about suffering.  What could radiate more 
suffering but such an impossible task?  That's why I think the 
mystical side of the MoQ has so much to offer.  Choices can be made 
with quality in mind, without the search for non-existent 
certainty.  But the world is made of individuals that express all 
sorts of patterns.  I can accept someone's fear of uncertainty, but 
not their attributing it to all individuals at all times.  It just 
ain't so...









"Compassion diminishes fright about your own pain and increases inner 
strength." ~His Holiness, the Dalai Lama