[MD] Reductionism

[X Acto]

Platt,
I think Pirsig isn't so much saying that modern society is "no good" just that 
it's still in the throes of the intellectual/social struggle. Both are rudderless
and are tending toward extremes in their battle (your war with Arlo illustrates
this superbly) America, as New York in his Quote in Lila is allways looking like 
it's going to hell. Caught between social level victorian paralysis and intellectual
level relativism paralysis. But it has to be open to degeneracy to remain dynamic.

This means that "strong individuals" include degenerates, the zuni looked like a degenerate
but it took the tribe to see his value, it took being open to dynamic quality to see good
in his drunken window peeping telling the authorites they could piss off.
When "hippie" individuals do this they are also strong individuals challenging social norms.
You must realize this also.

I think the media is running low on republican punching bags, plus her busting of the local
Gov "old boys club" is coming back to haunt her, she is wise enough to realize the grid lock
of her lame duck situation and is stepping down to out manuever these tactics.

Thanks
-Ron




________________________________
From: "plattholden at gmail.com" <plattholden at gmail.com>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 8:58:46 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Reductionism

On 10 Jul 2009 at 4:11, John Carl wrote:

> > Furthermore, strong individuals can only be created by a strong society and
> > a strong society can only be created by strong individuals.

> > [Platt]
> > What defines a "strong individual?"


> Well when I started that chapter in Royce's philosophy and read that part
> about strong individuals, what flashed into my mind was the Zuni in Lila.
>  That was a strong individual.  But look at all the barriers he had to
> fight, even go through torture, and yet he persisted in caring about what
> happened to his society.  If his society had been weak and wishy washy, he
> wouldn't have had to exhibit so much strength or develop his strength.  I
> think of strength as something you get with resistance.
> 
> But also Platt, it makes a case for your politics doesn't it?  In a liberal
> economic system that takes care of all its individuals, they never develop
> the necessary necessity that is the mother of invention.

I like your definition of a strong individual as one who fights against 
prevailing social standards and conventional wisdom and keeps fighting 
regardless of powerful forces arrayed against her. Such an individual 
who  flashes in my mind is Sarah Palin who is anathema to left-wing 
radicals.  Their fear of her is palpable. 

As for the deleterious effect of liberal "caring" that smothers the need to 
do anything but sit around and collect government transfers of wealth, 
you are so right -- another reason why Pirsig described the quality of 
modern society as "no good."

Platt .  
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