[MD] Empirical and Historical

[david buchanan]

dmb says:
I think you're exactly right here. Wish I'd said it that well. Thanks.

Steve said: 
> What I mean by the historical perspective is the MOQ hierarchy of  
> value patterns which is based on the evolutionary view of the  
> universe unfolding over billions of years. The hierarchy is justified  
> based on time where the types of patterns evolved in a specific  
> order. From this perspective inorganic patterns come first.  But  
> Pirsig uses terms like "pre-intellectual awareness" to describe DQ as  
> well. Certainly he is not talking about inorganic patterns which are  
> also "pre-intellectual" in the historical perspective. Instead, DQ as  
> pre-intellectual makes sense from the empirical perspective where  
> time itself is not a given but derived from experience. From this  
> perspective ideas come first which include such ideas as the  
> evolutionary view of the universe unfolding over billions of years  
> which justifies the MOQ hierarchy.
> 
> As to whether there is anything significant about claims versus  
> perspectives, all I mean is that it is important to take into account  
> on which perspective a given claim that Pirsig makes is based.
 
> I think the MOQ hierarchy is an attempt to demonstrate DQ/sq at work  
> through history, but if you want to understand DQ, it is the radical  
> empirical perspective that is most important since DQ is the leading  
> edge of experience. But I also tend to think that the less said about  
> DQ the better. It is a koan--a concept representing the  
> conceptionally unknown. I think the point is to think of the  
> conceptually unknown as an immediate quality stimulus instead of an  
> indifferent universe waiting to be discovered and evaluated.
> 
> As for "two different senses"--that is a gross understatement for a  
> term that is infinitely definable and thus left better undefined.


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