[MD] Empirical and Historical

[X Acto]

Bo:
I admire your courage to display such logical faults. If the assertion of 
anything coming before experience is an idea, then the assertion of 
experience as primary is an idea too,

Ron:
Right
That is why MoQ is said to be an idea, a concept about experience.

Bo:
ergo ideas are primary! Don't you see 
that this idea nonsense is a solipsism black hole that nothing can escape? 

Ron:
Conceptually, experience is primary also experience is expereince, it speaks
for itself it the now of being. Your existence at this very moment is expereince.
Right now, as you breath is primary.This is not subjectivism, it comes
before subjectivism. Subjectivism is corelative to objectivism, and only exists
in relation to subjectivism. 
Expereince, being, existing at this very moment, is primary. 

The experiences you are expereincing right now, understanding and describing
it is conceptualizing it, remembering it, is conceptualizing it.

Therfore it is more empirical than sensory empiricism, because it is the now 
of experience not any conception of it. Quality, experience, is reality. Indefineable
for defining it is conceptualizing it, conceptualing it, is what pirsig calls static quality.
Static quality is conceptually divided into four levels. 

The idea is still born only when you view it in terms of subjectivism as opposed
to objectivism. This is an indication that you still think in terms of subjects and objects
in trying to understand what is being said.

-Ron







________________________________
From: "skutvik at online.no" <skutvik at online.no>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 10:59:45 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Empirical and Historical

Hi Ron 

11 July you wrote:

> Ideas arent first, experience is first, then ideas. Ideas about
> experience are ideas. thus the idea of anything coming before
> experience is, in fact, an idea. 

I admire your courage to display such logical faults. If the assertion of 
anything coming before experience is an idea, then the assertion of 
experience as primary is an idea too, ergo ideas are primary! Don't you see 
that this idea nonsense is a solipsism black hole that nothing can escape? 
Exactly as with language, even Krimel understood - and shut up - when I 
pointed to the fact that language is used to express (in this case) the 
Quality Context, therefore the Quality/Concept assertion is stillborn. (of 
which Experience/Idea is a derivative)    

Bodvar






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