[MD] Evolution

[Joseph Maurer]

On 7/20/09 1:26 PM, "MarshaV" <valkyr at att.net> wrote:

[Marsha]
Evolution is a high quality intellectual (scientific) static pattern of
value concerned with the order of existence.
 
[Marsha]
Holy Moly, I'm from Michigan too. Small world. My favorite place was Irish
Hills where my Oma lived on one of the Twin Lakes.

[Marsha]
Reality?  I was in tears of joy with the best understanding of REALITY I
ever heard spoken by Lila: "...I'm whatever your questions turn me into. You
don't see that. It's your questions that make me who I am. If you think I'm
an angel then that's what I am. If you think I'm a whore then that's what I
am. I'm whatever you think. And if you change your mind about me then I
change too. So whatever Richard tells you, it's true. There's no way he can
lie about me."   -    Reality is whatever you think it is, there's no way
you can lie about it, and if you change your understanding of reality, then
reality changes too.

Hi Marsha and all,

[Joe]
Reality/Evolution. Platt denies that intellect can determine value.   “I’m
whatever your questions turn me into.”

[Joe]
Imho  I ordinarily do not think.  In an analogy to a coin there are three
questions to ask about every manifestation.   What it is, active?  What it
is not, passive?   At what level of evolution is it, neutral?  Ordinarily
“I’m whatever your questions turn me into” emphasizes the passive “I am made
into something!”  

[Joe]
“Reality is whatever you think it is, there's no way
you can lie about it, and if you change your understanding of reality, then
reality changes too.”

[Joe]
My impulse starts from an active “do something attitude” which is quite
insensitive.  Imho the neutral “edge” of the coin, existence, remains
unspoken but understood in most statements of experience in that it is
undefined, not-conscious, evolution.

Joe

Marsha:
Reality?  I was
> in tears of joy with the best understanding of REALITY I
ever heard spoken by
> Lila: "...I'm whatever your questions turn me into. You
don't see that. It's
> your questions that make me who I am. If you think I'm
an angel then that's
> what I am. If you think I'm a whore then that's what I
am. I'm whatever you
> think. And if you change your mind about me then I
change too. So whatever
> Richard tells you, it's true. There's no way he can
lie about me."    -
> Reality is whatever you think it is, there's no way
you can lie about it, and
> if you change your understanding of reality, then
reality changes too.   
 

> 
Marsha
 

  

> Greetings Joe,
> 
> What is not relative?  I might wonder
> what put you into a seminary for 12
> years?  I was very small when I sensed
> there was something behind the
words
> and explanations: the moon, the
> Absolute, Dynamic Quality.  Not this, not
> that, and certainly not a
> metaphysics.
> 
>   And what is good, Phædrus,
>   And what is not good...
>
> Need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
> 
> Did you find the explanations
> for circling the moon satisfying? Creation?
> Evolution?  I'd say: not this,
> not that.
> 
> I love the Metaphysics of Quality, an inquiry into morals.
>
> 
>  
> Marsha 
>   
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
>
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Joseph Maurer>
> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 5:29 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject:
> Re: [MD] Evolution
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 7/19/09 12:43 AM, "MarshaV"
> <valkyr at att.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi Marsha and all,
> 
> My thought as I typed
> ³Absolute² was that Pirsig tied morals to evolution.
> On my copy of Lila the
> subtitle is AN INQUIRY INTO MORALS.  My sense is
that
> for Pirsig evolution
> is not speculation, but the metaphysical description
> for levels of Quality.
> These levels become the metaphysical basis for
> morality.  Is it that just
> metaphysical descriptions are subject to
> evolution, or are social laws?  My
> thought is that the members of society
> are also evolving or have already
> evolved to the intellectual level and
> beyond (Bo¹s meta-level).   IMO the
> basis for morality transcends cultural
> differences so I used the word
> ³Absolute².   I would not defend it other
> than in an evolutionary scenario.
> I sincerely hope that explanation helps
> relieve the ³troubling².
> 
> I
> realize now that mathematics¹ has broader conceptualizations, the
> universe.
> Maybe evolution is specific to Earth¹s inhabitants.  I do not
> want to start
> a creation-evolution debate, even though morality may not be
> specific to
> earth, when Worlds collide. IMO Pirsig avoided discussing any
> origins for
> the moon¹s orbit around the earth.  But I have read some
> explanations for
> the moon¹s orbit around Earth.
> 
> Joe
> 
>> Greetings Joe,
>> 
>> Isn't
> evolution also related to human conceptualization?  Where does the
>> very
> word and definition of 'evolution' come from?  Isn't evolution
merely
>> the
> best intellectual (scientific) static pattern of value explaining the
>>
> origin of life on Earth?  What about time?  Does evolution assume a
>>
> relationship with time?  Is time an Absolute?  No, how can it be, is it
>>
> related to change/motion?  Your view of evolution as Absolute on planet
>>
> Earth is troubling.
>> 
>> Marsha
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Marsha and all.
>> 
>> My
> story is chance.   I studied in a Catholic Seminary, College and
>> Monastery
> for 12 years. After 12 years of studying St Thomas Aquinas, I
>> thought I
> knew Philosophy.  I was married to Louise after Anna was born.
> We
>> studied
> esotericism for 4 years with a lady who had studied with John
>> Bennett. 
>>
> 
>> Louise decided to get a BA degree so she could get a better job, and in
>
> the
>> course of her studies Zen and the Art was suggested reading.  She told
> me
> I
>> would like it.  I did, and later I bought Lila in paperback.  Then
> by
> chance
>> I found the forum.
>> 
>> I was skeptical, but something in me
> resonates to Quality. I think
> evolution
>> is Absolute truth on planet
> Earth.
>> 
>> Joe
>> 
>>> Hi Joe,
>>> 
>>> Nothing wrong with conventional
> truth as long as I don't mistake it for
>>> Absolute Truth.  Evolution is a
> great conventional truth.  It has a
>> history,
>>> it has changed over time,
> and will continue to change until it has too
>> many
>>> anomalies to survive.
> I like to think of everyday experience and
>>> conventional truth like a
> kaleidoscope. Each shift exposes a different,
>>> astounding view.  But I
> haven't always been so mellow.
>>> 
>>> What's your story Joe?  What moved you
> to philosophy?  What brought you
> to
>>> this forum?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Marsha
>>
> 
>> 

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