[MD] What a wonderful world

[skutvik at online.no]

Hello Andre 

24 July you wrote:

> I've been away, off and on for a bit, here and there, and I'm going to
> suggest something outrageous: it's great to be away from all this
> intellectualising. I have enjoyed some stuff, felt annoyed at other
> stuff but in general have wondered what the hell are we doing?
 
> We are not engaging ourselves with the essence of what Pirsig has told
> us. All this mumbo jumbo about MoQ...expressing it in a static way by
> writing it down and getting loads of s/o arguments to deal with (from
> a s/o point of experience), trying to 'convert' people to see things
> from the Quality point of view........ ahh it is so tiring sometimes
> to put something undefinable in unintelligible parlance because then
> you get intelligence going...it is such an EGO creator! 

I see you are fed up with this discussion (but return to it nevertheless to 
tell us ;-) and it says it: Language is our ocean and nothing can be 
conveyed without employing it. Jesus, Socrates, Buddha were all word-
mongers and egotrippers by trying to introduce their messages via 
language and  their followeres even worse so by writing it down. But 
don't you see: It's SOM that has led us to believe in an objective, 
immutable reality that words are mere subjective shadows of (ref. 
SOM's instigator Plato's cave metaphor) This is the "tormentor" I spoke 
about that the MOQ was meant to relieve us from, but that Pirsig 
himself got cold feets about and left for a more watered-down variety 
where intellect no longer is SOM, but mental activity. And you - like 
Odyssey's sailors - are tied to the SOM mast and holy convinced that 
talking about the MOQ is "intellectualizing" - and that Quality/Language 
is existence's deepest split and - moreover - that language 
(manipulation of symbols) is MOQ's 4th level, mening that prehistoric 
mankind's myths (conveyed by language) were "intellectualizing" 
(millennias before the level). You Andre appeared as a promising MOQ 
candidate but proved a dud like so many. 

Still your friend     

Bodvar






Such a divider
> wanting to know and understand everything in its finest detail and
> whilst it is doing this getting farther and farther away from a deeper
> understanding of what quality is all about. Such a bundle of particles
> fighting for its own existence while knowing all the time it is about
> the waves. The resolution of a paradox ( read particle war) leads to a
> deeper understanding (a wave resolution) i.e a deeper understanding to
> reach a higher level on consciousness. This resolution takes place at
> the pre- ( or is it post?) intellectual level. Consider the simple
> statement: "to save your life you have to lose it'" ( not sure if
> Jesus actually said this but it sounds ok) To understand this
> statement you have to go deeper than mere intellectual understanding.
> As a matter of fact you cannot make sense of this statement if you
> intellectualise about it...if you approach it intellectually. This is
> a level of understanding, a level of consciousness Pirsig talked about
> in ZMM...this is the Pirsig I love! LIVE!, EXPERIENCE!
> 
> And the implications and consequences of this insight are reaching far
> beyong the 'little' considerations named 'intellect' or 'intelligence'
> as a means of experiencing experience (Quality). This goes higher and
> at the same time deeper!! It,as Pirsig anticipated, invokes a real
> break from intellect ( as Bodvar suggests) it needs to be transcended
> ( as Phaedrus anticipated and fought for). A radical break from
> everything we are used to! A spiritual awareness of an order above the
> intellectual. This, of necessity invokes intuition, imagination,
> feeling:a 'listnening to the wind (ZMM)' The Code of Art!.
> 
> I am still trying to work this out: the complementarity between the
> waves and the paricles...this is very interesting stuff. Thoughts are
> particles! Intellect creates particles from the ineffable waves of
> Quality! Pre-intellectual/post intellectual deeper understanding
> re-establishes the waves ...but much richer.
> 
> Ahh, I don't know. Anyone...help!
> 
> For what it is worth
> Andre
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