[MD] (Fwd) Re: John Carl Critiques Pure Experience:INST01

[X Acto]

John said to Bo:
Quality is ultimately the "big picture" - an Idealistic framework - and radical empiricism is the reductionistic mechanism thought (by some) to prove/produce its existence.

dmb says:
No, the metaphysics of Quality is the big picture and it's an intellectual framework, just as all metaphysical systems are. Quality is direct, everyday experience, not a mechanism and certainly not a reductionist mechanism. Quality doesn't need to be proved because the term refers to what all persons already know directly from experience. Do you need a mechanism by which it can be proved that you don't like lima beans? Nope. You just put them in your mouth and you immediately know they're awful. This is not "knowledge" in the conceptual sense of the word, but you know it for sure. You "know" in the sense of a basic familiarity as in, "I know that face" or "I know that song" or "I know that kind of heartache". You "know" what I mean?

Ron interjects:

I think Royce, in his defense of the "absolute", brings about a certian rationalised objectivism to his idealism.
While James maintains empirical "raw feels".
Idealism, which has been historically misinterpreted, generally asserts it broken into two
distinct camps, objective idealism and subjective idealism. That objects exist, but what are
experienced is sensory stimuli not the objects themselves and that objects only exist when percieved.
which both famously assume that objects, are the beginning of sensory perception.

Royce, in my opinion, begins to reify in his asserions of the absolute. Royce posits about the universal absolute
where James focus is on individual "radical" meaning and it's pragmatic consequences without postulating
the origin of raw feels or needing to.

I think this is what attracted Pirsig. Once he understood that idealism may be embedded within
radically empirical meaning he saw how science and religeon could indeed flow together.







 

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