[MD] principle of complimentarity

[MarshaV]

Ian, 

The zeros are there and cannot be ignored (one would think), but from what I
heard of the Top Quark discovery at Fermilab it doesn't take much for them
to cry Victory, there is  much too much invested in the Standard Model.  Did
you happen to see the movie 'Dark Matter'?  I know it's just a movie, but
it's making legitimate claims about the ???  Well, if you get a chance see
the movie.


Marsha






-----Original Message-----  From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Ian Glendinning
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:21 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] principle of complimentarity

Hi Ron, Marsha,

I like that
"Objectivly speaking, reality is a dream within a dream within a
dream...et infinum"

I have used
"The dreams that stuff are made from" to bastardize the bard - though
I didn't coin that version.

Just for the record the limitations are not within the "measuring
devices" - but with the very concept of measurement, given current
received wisdom of fundamental physics.

FYI - my current view is one level lower than either particles or
waves - quantum information - where wave-particle complemenarity are
just two views of the same information. We'll have to wait for that
expensive piece of kit in Switzerland to be a complete failure (or
disaster) before much of the world notices though. The guys with the
funding have the wrong maths - Einstein corrected his error, but still
very few have noticed post-Copenhagen.

Ian.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:09 PM, X Acto<xacto at rocketmail.com> wrote:
> Marsha,
>
> I believe it seems to exclude a particles momentum or trajectory simply
because
> of the limits of the measuring devices and the gravitational effects it
has on them.
>
> For starters, mainly because particles are not really entities or
substances but an intersection
> of fields of force.
> As I understand it, particles are layers apon layers of said intersections
built up from a backround
> of these fields of "force" for lack of a better word,  manifesting in
strong and weak atomic forces.
>
> The popular theory at the moment, which the super collider hoped to
verify, was that all of this
> is a manifestation of the field of space, or string theory, that space is
composed of fluctuating
> quantum rings.
> Objectivly speaking, reality is a dream within a dream within a dream...et
infinum
>
> so measuring is a bit of a problem, objectivly. Complimentrarity, says
that these particles
> and forces only exist in relation to eachother. to isolate them and
calculte their trajectory
> is misunderstanding them, it creates paradox. like the particle/wave
duality, the duality
> lies in how the phenomena is measured not in the phenomena itself.
>
> So to conclude, the problem is in how physicists understand particles and
the limits of the
> methods of measurement.
>
> -Ron
>
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> ----- Original Message ----
> From: MarshaV <valkyr at att.net>
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 6:27:27 AM
> Subject: [MD] principle of complimentarity
>
> Greetings,
>
>
>
> Why is it that if we perform an experiment to determine a quantum
particle's
> position, it excludes knowing only the particle's momentum and not
> everything else?
>
>
>
>
>
> Marsha
>
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> _____________
>
>
>
> "He who neglects the present moment throws away all he has."
>   (Friedrich von Schiller)
>
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>
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