[MD] Reductionism

[MarshaV]

Gav,

I agree that you cannot explain immediate 
experience.  The words are never the 
experience.  DQ is indivisible, undefinable and 
unknowable.  Science might, though, freely 
acknowledge there is something important beyond its ability to know.

My interest in Systems Theory is that it is 
willing to look at the interdependent 
relationships between systems beyond direct 
constituents.  Those system are patterns.  Just 
looking for some kind of scientific point-of-view beyond reductionism.

Marsha





At 09:07 AM 6/2/2009, you wrote:
>i think you are missing my point marsha, maybe. 
>we can analogise immediate experience, but this 
>doesn't *explain* immediate experience. 
>immediate experience cannot be explained away: 
>that is the whole thing. no clockwork 
>oranges.... it is *immediate* - there is no 
>'mediator' to expose or explain... ...."*you 
>have to own your position*” says steve, 
>emphatically, insistently, as if he is always 
>talking to himself, which he is...yes this 
>phrase (and others) are mantric...they 
>encapsulate a truth bigger than the words 
>themselves, reinforcing a worldview implicit in 
>their comprehension. the inverse worldview! to 
>see the whole in the part; to see the individual 
>projecting the global ­ to understand the 
>problems can't be fixed 'oout there'...the 
>problems are in your own soul, or lack of 
>awareness thereof. the world is a reflection of 
>you, of us, of the general psychosomatic 
>condition, which is one of schizophrenia and 
>alienation. henry: "the learning we received 
>only tended to obscure our vision. from the day 
>we went to school we were made obtuse, we were 
>wrapped in a fog of words and abstractions." "if 
>you're trying to improve your mind, stop it! 
>there's no improving the mind. look at your 
>heart and gizzard ­ the brain is in thhe heart" 
>"the world has not to be put in order: the world 
>is order incarnate. it is for us to put 
>ourselves in unison with this order, to know 
>what is the world order in contradistinction to 
>the wishful-thinking orders which we seek to 
>impose on one another." truth! where is the 
>truth? what is the truth? isn't that what this 
>boils down to? we are arguing over what is 
>'true'....this is absurd! fucking absurd! and it 
>has to stop! no more of this perverted masculine 
>bullshit! truth is not found via post-mortem, or 
>on a scoresheet, it can't be conquered. it is 
>dynamic, living. to understand the truth it must 
>be surrendered to....incorporated. truth is a 
>woman!!!!!!! truth is a goddess - from maat 
>onwards through athena, sophia - always a woman. 
>the oracle at delphi, the goddess 'emeth' - the 
>word means truth in hebrew. the truth is 
>feminine! the truth is the darkness within the 
>female: the fecundity of the void - gestating 
>universes.  how can one know this truth in any 
>other way than by surrendering to it, and then 
>knowing oneself? nietszche: he opens 'beyond 
>good and evil with': “Supposing that Truth is 
>a woman- what then? Is there not ground for 
>suspecting that all dogmatic philosophers, just 
>as they have failed to understand women, have 
>failed to woo truth? Are there not grounds for 
>the suspicion that all philosophers, insofar as 
>they were dogmatists, have been very inexpert 
>about women? That the gruesome seriousness, the 
>clumsy obtrusiveness with which they have 
>usually approached truth so far have been 
>awkward and very improper methods for winning a 
>woman’s heart?" and then we return to lila, to 
>that magnificent passage that you quoted 
>marsha....where lila stumps phaedrus....cos 
>phaedrus is trying to explain lila! to himself. 
>he is trying to get to her truth....trying in 
>the wrong way. truth, like beauty, like love, is 
>simple and immediately recognised. having 
>convictions (sq) obscures the truth (Dq). cheers 
>gav       Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday 
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The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, 
interrelated and interconnected, inorganic, 
biological, social and intellectual, static 
patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality.

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