[MD] Think like a baby

[plattholden at gmail.com]

On 3 Jun 2009 at 7:12, X Acto wrote:

> > Platt,
> > To view things as a baby and how Pirsig mentions, is to drop the stereotypes
> > we hold and take a fresh new look. Like looking at the positives of socialism
> > communism and capitalism and combine them to create a society that actually 
> > DOES value the individual, valuing individuals other than YOURSELF is
> > socialism you know.
> Platt:
> What are the positives of socialism and communism? Is making other 
> individuals dependent on government for their welfare your idea of 
> "valuing" them?
> 
> Ron:
> No, and thats not the goal of either nor is it of capitalism. the Goal of all is the 
> individual dedication to social Quality.

The goal of capitalism is sustain a free market and protect private 
property in the the pursuit of profits. Social Quality is the benefit, not the 
goal.  (See Pirsig's comparison of capitalism vs. socialism.)


> Ron prev:
> > That is why I have a hard time understanding your dichotomy
> > of value of the individual in society yet despise anything that has to do with it
> > . You exalt the diversity of individuals yet despise multiculturalism
> > when what you really despise is moral relativism,
> 
> Platt:
> Just in case you've forgotten, here's what Pirsig had to say about 
> multiculturism which demands we value all cultures equally:
> 
> "Cultures can be graded and judged morally according to their 
> contribution to the evolution of life." (Lila, 24)
> 
> Ron:
> In case you have forgotten that is cultual relativism NOT multicultualism.
> And Pirsig makes my point.

Where does Pirsig make your point? (What is your point anyway?) As 
for the meaning of "multiculturism," this from Wikipedia: 

"I this context, multiculturalism advocates a society that extends 
equitable status to distinct ethnic and religious groups, with no 
identifiable ethnical and/or religious culture treated as a single norm to 
which everyone has to adhere to."

Note the phrase, "equitable status."

 
> Ron prev:
> > Pirsig gives us
> > a way to make moral judgments without the typical stereotypes
> > that hinder us from making Quality judgments or the paralysis
> > of relativism.
> 
> Platt:
> Agree. 
> 
> Ron:
> Then whats with all the fuss about multiculturalism?

Multiculturism demands just the opposite.

> Ron prev:
> >  I'll save you the effort of the 
> > Lila quote.
> > 
> > In the veldt it's the individual that gets eaten first. United we stand, divided we fall.
> > Safety in numbers.

>Platt:
> In what chapter in Lila will I find that quote?
> 
> Ron:
> The quote refers to the one you made previously above the one you appearently
> agree with, please follow along.

I made that quote previously? Better show me.


> 
> Ron prev:
> > The idea is to look at the Quality in everything Platt, this is what babies do.
> 
> Platt:
> Right. But Quality has a negative side, too. That's why among a baby's 
> first words is, "No!".
> 
> Ron:
> I agree Quality does have a negative side also expereinced without stereotypes by babies,
> Been awhile since you held a baby, toddlers say "no" because we teach them the word "no".
> during the terrible 2's they really exercise it.

You bet they do. They know negative Quality when they see it. 


> 
> ________________________________
> From: "plattholden at gmail.com" <plattholden at gmail.com>
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 9:56:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Think like a baby
> 
> On 3 Jun 2009 at 6:29, X Acto wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > ________________________________
> > From: "plattholden at gmail.com" <plattholden at gmail.com>
> > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 7:49:34 AM
> > Subject: [MD] Think like a baby
> > 
> > All:
> > 
> > There's a book out called "The Philosophical Baby." The Boston Globe 
> > has an interesting review at:
> > 
> > http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/04/26/inside_the
> > _baby_mind/?page=full
> > 
> > If you read it I think you'll be reminded of Pirsig's thoughts about the 
> > world as seen by babies in Chapter 9 of Lila. Perhaps you'll recall these 
> > words:
> > 
> > "This, Phaedrus thought, was why little children are usually quicker to 
> > perceive Dynamic Quality than old people, why beginners are usually 
> > quicker than experts, why primitive people are sometimes quicker than 
> > those of "advanced" cultures."
> > 
> > To perceive DQ -- isn't that our goal? The article suggests how we just 
> > might be able to do that more often.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Platt 
> 
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
> 
> 
> 
>       
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/