[MD] save krimel!

[kieffer odigaunt]

for me Krimel talks more sense than anyone else here

your bad language gav to me shows your standpoint is uncertain

-KO

2009/6/15 gav <gav_gc at yahoo.com.au>

>
> hey gorgeous,
>
> > [gav]
> > so you believe systems exist independently of the observer?
> >
> > an independent objective reality was discredited 100 years
> > ago by quantum
> > physics. pirsig revealed the constructed nature of SOM
> > reality.
> >
> > [Krimel]
> > You have unwittingly raised and interesting point, which I
> > am coming to
> > suspect is the only way that could happen. You claim that
> > "an independent
> > objective reality was discredited 100 years ago by quantum
> > physics." This is
> > just not true. The QM dudes altered our understanding of
> > the world of the
> > very, very small but there is as yet no consensus as to
> > what that might mean
> > on the scale of the everyday world. There have been
> > different explanations
> > proposed and ATM none seems to be especially dominant. This
> > is exactly the
> > kind of situation that gives the lie to the idea that
> > science is dogmatic.
>
> gav: you talk like a dickhead. how does that feel?
>
> krimel:"You claim that
> > "an independent
> > objective reality was discredited 100 years ago by quantum
> > physics." This is
> > just not true. "
>
> gav: no you are just speaking shite. if you argue with this sorta stuff
> what hope have you got of not being a dickhead? - not fucking much.
>
> >
> > [gav]
> > the immediate present is eternal; it is outside time - time
> > is
> > psychological. time and space as independent structuring
> > elements of
> > experience is a kantian concept and is at odds with radical
> > empiricism and
> > pirsig and buddhism and taoism and physics etc
> >
> > [Krimel]
> > Come on, gav, act like you have a clue. That is just a lot
> > of nonsense
> > pretending to sound important because you randomly drop in
> > a few names. I
> > bet it sounds better in a warm bath with a head full of
> > shrooms. But try
> > saving things until the next day and reread them before you
> > hit send.
>
> gav: nice argument dickhead!! what salient and subtle points like
> 'nonsense' and 'act like you have a clue'...but no actual addressing of the
> points raised. funny that. dickhead.
> >
> > [gav]
> > your thinking pressuposes SOM - senses responding to an
> > external (system
> > dependent) reality - that is *subject experiencing object*.
> > this is as
> > non-moq as it is possible to be.
> >
> > [Krimel]
> > I have been through this a dozen times with your cult
> > leader. I have no
> > intention of rehashing this with someone who doesn't have
> > the juice to keep
> > up.
> >
> gav: yes i wonder why dickhead. could it be that your head is so far up
> your own arse you are unable to respond in any other way.
>
> > [gav]
> > if you are here to argue with pirsig about the fundamentals
> > of his work then
> > i reckon that's kinda pointless, but i guess that's your
> > prerogative.
> >
> > [Krimel]
> > If I were here to argue with Pirsig this really would have
> > been a waste of
> > time.
> >
> > (BTW, Bob, my spam filter is especially sensitive and keeps
> > blocking your
> > messages... Try "Krimel, you Suck" in the subject line.)
> >
> > I have been especially disappointed to see how you and the
> > Aw Gi have
> > squandered the potential of his work on a bunch of new age
> > foolishness. It
> > is especially galling to have twits like you sounding all
> > smug and self
> > assured in their cluelessness.
> >
> > "Let's drink to Henry Miller and look for goddesses to
> > defile."
>
> gav: how ya feeling sqaureboy? i am surprised you have read miller? or have
> you? just dropping names perhaps. how does it feel to be so square? can u
> feel at all?
> do you love anyone krimel? how does that feel?
>
> > [gav]
> > you thoroughly identify with SOM. do you realise this?
> >
> > [Krimel]
> > Not at all; but you are welcome to peruse the archives.
>
> gav: mate i have perused them for years; no need to rehash cos you haven't
> changed! you are still SOM to the core and blind as a fucking deaf bat.
> >
> > [gav]
> > it is frustrating to go through all the basics that pirsig
> > has explored much
> > more thoroughly in his books.
> >
> > [Krimel]
> > Yes, it is really frustrating to have some one pointing in
> > the so many right
> > directions and yet see people staring at blank spots on the
> > wall.
>
> gav: you really think you know better than pirsig? - that you can correct
> the 'many errors in his work' and produce a synthesis that is gonna be
> awesome! do it then! see how you go. i don't think you will have quite the
> same success...but i could be wrong... well that's a lie. i know i am right.
> >
> > [gav]
> > what do you agree with pirsig about?
> >
> > [Krimel]
> > I think Pirsig has remarkable instincts to some the
> > critical issues of the
> > past century. Overall his two books have inspired my
> > thinking as much as any
> > two books I can think of. But that doesn't mean I am
> > drinking the Kool-aide.
> > He sees many of the issues clearly but when painted into a
> > corner he gets
> > things a bit tangled.
> > His modifications of Taoism for example.
> > His understanding of the importance of coding and encoding
> > without grasping
> > the significance.
> > He explains of random access very well and then runs away
> > from the
> > implications.
> > His sophomoric account of evolution.
> >
> > Until I came here I mostly ignored these as minor
> > indiscretions but when I
> > see how far off track these errors have led people I tend
> > to get a little
> > crabby.
>
> gav: you may have noticed that i have lost my civil tongue cos quite
> frankly you deserve a tongue lashing. your disrespect towards marsha was the
> last straw for me. your disrespect of pirsig follows close behind. but
> generally your manner is appalling.
>
> you don't listen!!!! you are sure you are right...you are a chauvinist, in
> more ways than one.
>
> the luxury of having dmb, ant, dan, marsha and others to help you, and they
> have tried so hard, and you offer no thanks or respect....what is your
> problem? you are not worthy of such careful efforts it seems to me.
>
> but maybe i am wrong...maybe you will let someone in, consider an
> alternative perspective, see how it feels...maybe you will decide to stay
> off the computer for a while and go and EXPERIENCE the world. maybe you will
> shut up long enough to get quiet inside again....maybe you will let
> go....eventually you have to. i just hope it happens before you die.
>
> see ya testicle face
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
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>
>
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