[MD] Why the quality of the modern world is no good.

[MarshaV]

Thanks Ron, I remember being really shocked when hearing that Fischl 
interview.  - Marsha







At 11:30 AM 6/25/2009, you wrote:
>Marsha,
>I think that is how the role of the artist has come to be percieved, but,
>I think a more accurate MoQ appraisel is to see the Artist as challenging
>static patterns of value whatever those patterns are, doing so opens
>up the possibility of defining new static patterns of Quality.
>
>I think pain and suffering is an issue because of how cultural norms
>today in a consumer driven economy tend to ignore them.
>
>-Ron
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net>
>To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:15:17 AM
>Subject: Re: [MD] Why the quality of the modern world is no good.
>
>
>Hey Ron,
>
>The reason I ask is because I heard this great interview with Eric
>Fischl, CBC Ideas (11/16/08), who stated something like that.  First
>I was shocked that he thought that was the role of an artist: to
>promote pain; and second, that he thought change only happened
>because of suffering.
>
>
>Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
>At 10:44 AM 6/25/2009, you wrote:
>
> >Ron,
> >
> >I'm curious...  Do you think it is the role of the artist to make
> >culture uncomfortable?  Maybe to emphasis  suffering and to promote change?
> >
> >
> >Marsha
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 10:17 AM 6/25/2009, you wrote:
> >>Platt,
> >>Interesting, I think what modern artists have done, since cubism, is
> >>challenge the ideal of what beauty is. True, we all value beauty but
> >>what is beautiful is being brought into question, challenging static
> >>patterns of value.
> >>I think what we see is not a degenerate form of beauty, but the results
> >>of the intellectual disconnect of value in an objectivly dominated society.
> >>The back lash of victorian attitudes of absolutism in objective forms.
> >>(Is'nt it nice how MoQ explains this?)
> >>
> >>As an Artist myself, the value of "shock Art" has become passe in my own
> >>and several of my peers opinions.
> >>
> >>-Ron
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>________________________________
> >>From: "plattholden at gmail.com" <plattholden at gmail.com>
> >>To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> >>Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 8:46:20 AM
> >>Subject: [MD] Why the quality of the modern world is no good.
> >>
> >>All:
> >>
> >>In Chapter 22 of Lila, Pirsig laments the lack of quality in modern life:
> >>
> >>"In the time that Phaedrus grew up, intellect was dominant over
> >>society, but the results of the new social looseness weren't turning out as
> >>predicted. Something was wrong. The world was no doubt in better
> >>shape intellectually and technologically but despite that, somehow, the
> >>"quality" of it was not good. There was no way you could say why this
> >>quality was no good. You just felt it."
> >>
> >>An essay by Roger Scruton entitled "Beauty and Desecration"
> >>explains as well as anything I've read "why this quality was no good."
> >>The following excerpt suggests where to look for the answer:
> >>
> >>"But why is beauty a value? It is an ancient view that truth, goodness
> >>and beauty cannot, in the end, conflict. Maybe the degeneration of
> >>beauty into kitsch comes precisely from the postmodern loss of
> >>truthfulness, and with it the loss of moral direction. That is the message
> >>of such early modernists as Eliot, Barber and Stevens, and it is a
> >>message we need to listen to."
> >>
> >>Scruton traces the change in art from a goal of attaining beauty "as a
> >>way in which lasting moral and spiritual values acquire sensuous form"
> >>to art that aimed to "disturb, subvert, or transgress moral certainties."
> >>
> >>Scruton concludes, "We should take a lesson from this kind of
> >>(artistic) desecration: in attempting to show our human ideals are
> >>worthless, it shows itself to be worthless. And when something shows
> >>itself to be worthless, it is time to throw it way."
> >>
> >>Seems to me that is also a message from the MOQ.
> >>
> >>For Scruton's essay, please go to:
> >>
> >>http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_2_beauty.html
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>Platt
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Moq_Discuss mailing list
> >>Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> >>http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> >>Archives:
> >>http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> >>http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Moq_Discuss mailing list
> >>Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> >>http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> >>Archives:
> >>http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> >>http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
> >
> >
> >_____________
> >
> >"He who neglects the present moment throws away all he has."
> >  (Friedrich von Schiller)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Moq_Discuss mailing list
> >Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> >Archives:
> >http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> >http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>
>
>_____________
>
>"He who neglects the present moment throws away all he has."
>   (Friedrich von Schiller)
>
>
>
>
>
>Moq_Discuss mailing list
>Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>Archives:
>http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>
>
>
>
>Moq_Discuss mailing list
>Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
>http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
>Archives:
>http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
>http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/


_____________

"He who neglects the present moment throws away all he has."
   (Friedrich von Schiller)