[MD] Why the quality of the modern world is no good.

[MarshaV]

Ron,

I'm afraid I might be what you call a 'lone crackpot', a happy one.


Marsha



At 12:22 PM 6/25/2009, you wrote:
>Marsha,
>In Platts defence, some times it takes an individual to challenge
>social norms to spark others to stand by their own convictions
>"I'm Sparticus!" but it does require the shared sentiment of
>the majority of the culture to revolutionize those norms, else
>the indiviual is a lone crackpot.
>
>-Ron
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net>
>To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:11:40 PM
>Subject: Re: [MD] Why the quality of the modern world is no good.
>
>
>Platt,
>
>The culture is a collection of individuals.  If enough individuals
>change (head, heart & hands), than so will the culture.
>
>
>Marsha
>
>
>
>
>At 11:44 AM 6/25/2009, you wrote:
> >Hi Marsha,
> >
> >Because the individual working on her motorcycle is influenced by her
> >culture. If the culture supports beauty, her work is more likely to be
> >beautiful. But, Pirsig is right. Changes in the cultural begin with an
> >individual, and someone has to be first.
> >
> >Platt
> >
> >
> >On 25 Jun 2009 at 10:16, MarshaV wrote:
> >
> > > Greetings Platt,
> > >
> > > Why is this concern, making beauty a cultural matter, of interest,
> > > when from ZMM:
> > >
> > > "I think that if we are going to reform the world, and make it a
> > > better place to live in, the way to do it is not with talk about
> > > relationships of a political nature, which are inevitably dualistic,
> > > full of subjects and objects and their relationship to one another;
> > > or with programs full of things for other people to do. I think that
> > > kind of approach starts it at the end and presumes the end is the
> > > beginning. Programs of a political nature are important end products
> > > of social quality that can be effective only if the underlying
> > > structure of social values is right. The social values are right only
> > > if the individual values are right. The place to improve the world is
> > > first in one's own heart and head and hands, and then work outward
> > > from there. Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of
> > > mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think
> > > that what I have to say has more lasting value."
> > >      (ZMM,Chapter 25)
> > >
> > >
> > > Marsha
> > >
> >
> > > At 08:46 AM 6/25/2009, you wrote:
> > > >All:
> > > >
> > > >In Chapter 22 of Lila, Pirsig laments the lack of quality in 
> modern life:
> > > >
> > > >"In the time that Phaedrus grew up, intellect was dominant over
> > > >society, but the results of the new social looseness weren't
> > turning out as
> > > >predicted. Something was wrong. The world was no doubt in better
> > > >shape intellectually and technologically but despite that, somehow, the
> > > >"quality" of it was not good. There was no way you could say why this
> > > >quality was no good. You just felt it."
> > > >
> > > >An essay by Roger Scruton entitled "Beauty and Desecration"
> > > >explains as well as anything I've read "why this quality was no good."
> > > >The following excerpt suggests where to look for the answer:
> > > >
> > > >"But why is beauty a value? It is an ancient view that truth, goodness
> > > >and beauty cannot, in the end, conflict. Maybe the degeneration of
> > > >beauty into kitsch comes precisely from the postmodern loss of
> > > >truthfulness, and with it the loss of moral direction. That is 
> the message
> > > >of such early modernists as Eliot, Barber and Stevens, and it is a
> > > >message we need to listen to."
> > > >
> > > >Scruton traces the change in art from a goal of attaining beauty "as a
> > > >way in which lasting moral and spiritual values acquire sensuous form"
> > > >to art that aimed to "disturb, subvert, or transgress moral 
> certainties."
> > > >
> > > >Scruton concludes, "We should take a lesson from this kind of
> > > >(artistic) desecration: in attempting to show our human ideals are
> > > >worthless, it shows itself to be worthless. And when something shows
> > > >itself to be worthless, it is time to throw it way."
> > > >
> > > >Seems to me that is also a message from the MOQ.
> > > >
> > > >For Scruton's essay, please go to:
> > > >
> > > >http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_2_beauty.html
> > > >
> > > >Regards,
> > > >Platt
> >
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>
>_____________
>
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>   (Friedrich von Schiller)
>
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_____________

"He who neglects the present moment throws away all he has."
   (Friedrich von Schiller)