[MD] Reductionism

[skutvik at online.no]

Gentlemen

On 28 June

> Krimel said:...You use language which reduces concepts to words. You
> have addressed none of this.

Agree with Krimel and for my own I must repeat that the greatest goof 
was to introduce a  Quality/Concept "meta-metaphysics"  which is 
playing straight into SOM's hand. As Krimel points to there is nothing 
outside of language ...IF ONE ACCEPTS SOM's of an objective 
reality "out there" fundamentally different from our conceptual 
language .... and so Pirsig and you obviously have done. Good Grief!    

> dmb says:I don't respond to stuff like this out of kindness. It only
> demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding on your part. It
> makes no sense to charge someone with reducing concepts to words.

I don't think Krimel accuses you of reducing concepts to words, it's the 
reality/words difference which is at stake and you - DMB - uphold this 
arch-somish distinction by the Quality/Concept monstrosity.  

> Concepts and words are so intimately interrelated that they're not
> even two different things, let alone things from different domains
> or levels. But when experience is explained in terms of
> physiological processes, you're going to end up explaining mystical,
> intellectual and social level phenomenon in biological terms. 

Concepts are formed by language so those are identical, but what is 
the experience you speak about? According to the MOQ there are 
four static levels of experience and each has its own "explanation". 
What you speak about is intellect that has the S/O (psychology for the 
inner and physics for the outer experience)  

> In other words,
> you're then explaining higher, more complex realities in terms of
> their lower and simpler constituents. That's reductionism. To avoid
> this kind of reductionism, obviously, one needs to explain these
> higher level things in their own terms, on their own level, within
> their own domain. Experience is still the test of truth but this is
> not limited to physical phenomenon or to what's experiences through
> the senses. 

Well as said experience comes in four distinct levels, SENSING is 
biology's experience, at the social level another "gate" has been 
added, namely EMOTIONS, and on the intellectual level REASON is 
the final (an most difficult) gate to pass on your way to a Quality 
understanding.  

All for now.

Bodvar