[MD] Faith/Skepticism

[Michael Poloukhine]

> [Michael]
> What I can't understand is why it bothers you so much that it takes
> faith to affirm Quality. 
> 
> [Arlo]
> You didn't answer any of my questions. Preachy but avoidant. So tell
> me, let's start here... does it take faith to affirm light? 
> 
> Remember, you said (about Quality) that both humans and dogs
> experience, but to
> "affirm it as Quality" takes faith. So, again, I ask, does it take
> "faith" to believe in "Light"? 


MP: Preachy? I'm not telling you you have to believe anything. I'm telling you 
you are blind to the degree to which the criticisms you think so relevant to other 
beliefs apply equally to yours. You were the one that started the preachy tone 
by insisting belief in God or Leprechauns is somehow less irrational than belief 
in Quality. I haven't answered your questions because I showed them to be 
flawed from the outset, and you have yet to address that critique. I'll try again:

You ask if it takes faith to believe in light. You ask the same of "Light." You fail 
to acknowledge there is a world of difference between the two.

To affirm light *is* what science says it is takes no faith other than one's belief in 
the standing of science to describe reality. To affirm "Light" takes faith if 
whatever it is you are affirming it is cannot be shown to be so through reason 
and scientific evidence. 

You ask me if it takes faith to affirm this "Light" of which you speak but fail to 
give me any suggestion as to what it is beyond some word you've dreamed up. 
You aren't affirm anything about "Light" so no, that does not take faith. But the 
moment you affirm something about it which you cannot prove through reason, 
yes, that would take faith.

Now you stop dodging my question and answer it:

Either you can prove Quality exists as something measurable (Pirsig himself 
goes on about how you can't at length) or you must affirm it without being able 
to prove it. If you affirm something exists without proof, how else (in the SOM 
world in which the distinctions of reason and faith exist) can you affirm it but 
through faith?

MP
----
"Don't believe everything you think."