[MD] Faith/Skepticism

Sun Mar 15 18:24:03 PDT 2009

Do you understand that experiential affirmation is more "empirical" than 
definitional affirmation? 

Do you understand that is what Pirsig is saying?

Reason is definitional affirmation.

Faith is unconditional belief contrary to both. Based on trust.

________________________________
From: X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:09:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Faith/Skepticism

Without a word you watch someone buy a hot dog from a vendor, take one bite
spits it out and argues with the vendor.

You go over and buy a hot dog, take a bite and tastes of  bleach, and spit it out.

I ask, was this affimed liguistically or experientially?
was this affirmation based on Quality of experience?
certainly not from any definition.

Do you see our point?

________________________________
From: X Acto <xacto at rocketmail.com>
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:59:14 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Faith/Skepticism

Michael:
I have been up front about using the word "faith" and with a specific meaning:

"affirmation absent proof" 

So with *this* definition of faith, prove my initial statement wrong that it takes 
faith to affirm Quality. Prove to me that a rock is a rock for the same reason a 
dog lays down in the sun; because of Quality. Show me the objective rational 
measure of Quality you use to affirm it.

If you can, you are not affirming the same Quality as Pirsig. 

Pirsig is quite clear that Quality cannot be defined. If you can't define something 
you can't prove it. To prove something is to define it. If you affirm something you 
cannot define, you are affirming something you cannot prove, it is an 
"affirmation absent proof." 

Faith.

Ron:
To prove something may be to experience it. Perhaps this is the meaning you miss.

Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org..uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/