[MD] Faith/Skepticism

[Michael Poloukhine]

> Ron asks:
> Do you understand that experiential affirmation is more "empirical"
> than definitional affirmation? 
MP: Yes. What makes "empirical" more relevant than "definitional?"

> Ron asks:
> Do you understand that is what Pirsig is saying?
MP: I understand you are saying this, and trust you that Pirsig said it.

> Ron says:
> Reason is definitional affirmation.
MP: Agreed.

> Faith is unconditional belief contrary to both. Based on trust.
MP: Wrong. Faith has many definitions. Who says this is the only one? Pirsig?  
LoL. That's convenient, but as he's not the one that said what I said, its also 
irrelevant. 

I have been quite clear that when I used the word faith in what I said, it was in 
the meaning that is in just about every dictionary: "affirmation absent proof." 
Just because Pirsig defined it another way some time in the past DOES NOT 
mean that is the only understanding of the word, let alone that it is even 
relevant to my statement.

I stated it takes faith to affirm Quality.
I stated by faith I mean "affirmation absent proof."

If we remove the word "faith" to the avoid a word that appears to simultaneously 
offend, confuse and the infuriate the majority of the crowd what I said parses 
down to:

"The affirmation of Quality is an affirmation absent proof."

Considering the degree to which proof is the foundation of reason, and Pirsig's 
own opinions on the Church of Reason I should think you'd all agree with this 
statement.


btw:
How do you guys use "experiential affirmation" to affirm that Quality makes a 
rock a rock rather than water? I'm interested in hearing this. Let me get some 
popcorn first...

MP
----
"Don't believe everything you think."