[MD] Quality-as-pre-conceptual/MOQ as conceptual.

[skutvik at online.no]

Craig 

I am on my way out, but must drop a response to this.  

19 March. u wrote:

> " I see today more clearly than when I wrote the SODV paper that the
> key to integrating the MOQ with science is through philosophic
> idealism, which says that objects grow out of ideas, not the other way
> around." (RMP, LC, 105n) 

> Does anyone see a good way to reconcile this quote with the 
> MoQ view that each level comes out of the level below it? 
...snip 

No one can IMO. This is akin to DMB's bad habit of returning to 
ZAMM where the Quality Idea still was in the process of freeing 
itself from SOM. At that time Pirsig found SOM's objective "horn" 
the mean one and saw it useful to turn the subjective one (i.e. 
philosophical idealism, new physics ..etc) against it.  He did so in 
the dilemma chapter i ZAMM and THAT argument ended with him 
turning the metaphysical "sock" inside out - Quality is neither 
subjective nor objective, it's the other way round, S & O  are 
Quality's INTELLECTUAL offshoot - and the proto-moq was born.  

After this Copernican revolution none of SOM's horns are relevant 
SOM is (as said he in ZAMM) "intellect" and when the final MOQ 
was written the intellectual level should have remained the value of 
the S/O distinction. It's disaster to start about "ideas" as if the 
MOQ has any affinity to SOM's subjective side and that "objects" 
still pose a problem ... all this is done and accounted for and I can't 
for the life of me understand why the annotating Pirsig does the 
MOQ this grand disservice.   

> Are organic spovs on the 1st level not objects or ideas not
> intellectual spovs on the 4th? 

Inorganic patterns are not somish objects, but by Goodness 
neither are they somish "ideas" at the idea-realm that the 
annotating Pirsig has changed the original intellect into. The MOQ 
must be saved from this som-ization that the PhD keen pundits 
peddles and the aging Pirsig don't have the power to resist. 

Bye for now

Bo