[MD] Quality and Free Will

MarshaV marshalz at charter.net
Sun Mar 29 13:21:50 PDT 2009



http://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Plain-Simple-Steve-Hagen/dp/0767903323/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238358043&sr=1-1 






At 03:54 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote:
>On Saturday 28 March 2009 9:04 PM Markhsmit writes to Joe:
>
>Hi Joe,
> >
> > I'm still having difficulty understanding the evolution of Quality.
> > This  would imply to me that new Quality is being formed, Quality
> > that did not exist before.  Has Quality evolved in the last 5000
> > years?  I am seriously asking this because it does not fit with my
> > current understanding, which may be erroneously Eastern (like the
> > Tao) at this point..  I am rereading Lila which may help me out.  My
> > conception of harmony is the temporary coalescence of Quality.  This
> > coalescence and dissipation is ongoing, an ebb and flow kind of
> > thing, rather than growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
>
>Hi Markhsmit, and All,
>
>I will ask you a question.  What tool are you using to try to understand the
>evolution of quality?  SOM posits a distinction between body and mind,
>between real existence and intentional existence.  Evolution of quality is
>not understandable using a metaphysics based on a mind/body division.
>
>MOQ proposes an evolutionary law of order.  Each manifestation in evolution
>combines DQundefined/SQdefined. The existence of the evolutionary order is
>real, not the supposed intentional existence created by a mind to give
>reality to an idea of order.  An inorganic rock exists in a different
>evolutionary order from an organic flower.  Time is not creative in
>cataloguing change, e,g, give it time.  Space does not create dimensions.
>
>These are my thoughts as I discuss a metaphysics of quality, MOQ.
>
>Joe
>
>On 3/28/09 9:04 PM, "markhsmit" <markhsmit at aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Joe,
> >
> > I'm still having difficulty understanding the evolution of Quality.  This
> > would imply to me that new Quality is being 
> formed, Quality that did not exist
> > before.  Has Quality evolved in the last 5000 years?  I am seriously asking
> > this because it does not fit with my current understanding, which may
> > be erroneously Eastern (like the Tao) at this point..  I am rereading Lila
> >  which may help me out.  My conception of harmony is the
> > temporary coalescence of Quality.  This coalescence and dissipation is
> > ongoing, an ebb and flow kind of thing, rather than growth.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Willblake2
> >
> >
> > On Mar 28, 2009, at 10:25:30 AM, "Joseph 
> Maurer" <jhmau at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > From:   "Joseph Maurer" <jhmau at sbcglobal.net>
> > Subject:    Re: [MD] Quality and Free Will
> > Date:   March 28, 2009 10:25:30 AM PDT
> > To: "moq_discuss at moqtalk.org" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> > On Friday 27 March 2009 10:36 PM Markhsmit writes:
> >
> > <snip>
> >> Why does Quality trend towards harmony, or growth, or being in
> >> phase? That is obvious. The intense love between between two
> >> people is the sharing and harmonic growth of Quality. Quality loves
> >> itself, it runs with the pack.
> >
> >> Is there anybody out there to harmonize with this post?
> >
> > Hi Markhsmit,
> >
> > The existence of quality also evolves to distinct levels. That makes
> > harmony possible. Different levels of existence.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/27/09 10:34 PM, "markhsmit" <markhsmit at aol.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks Joe,
> >>
> >> That's exactly what I meant!  Nothing (left) to lose, not even Bobby..
> >>
> >> Quality (as expressed through free will) 
> trends towards harmonics (for lack
> >> of
> >> a better word).   This harmony has no human 
> value associated with it, it can
> >> be bad or good, beautiful or ugly. It attracts and connects,  reverberates
> >> and
> >> grows in a crowd.  It is the reason for the crowd, and then it subsides.
> >>   Quality is like a wave, when it meets similar waves of itself, it is
> >> additive (does not cancel) and Quality 
> Grows.  Take for example an orchestra
> >> playing in the same key, the individual music is additive and intoxicating
> >> for
> >> the players and crowd (who add to the growth of the Quality).  Take for
> >> example a group of people enjoying a hike, the Quality shared between is
> >> additive, its much more fun to share.  Quality is additive in a football
> >> stadium amongst the crowd, and is additive 
> in a panic during a fire.  Quality
> >> seeks this harmony.  Harmonic Quality is present during a presidential
> >> election, and on a battlefield to the 
> death.  Harmonic Quality is the reason
> >> religions and philosophies grow.  It is the reason for communal greed
> >> and possessiveness, for the shared fear of death.
> >>
> >> Quality is shared through the exchange of ideas, it can be considered
> >> contagious except that it is not passed 
> along, but is the source.  Language
> >> is
> >> the vector for exchange.  Ever meditated with a group of monks?
> >>  It's incredible.  That is the harmonic 
> growth of Quality.  It's how Quality
> >> trends.  We know when we are in this group 
> Quality, we feel swept away, part
> >> of a larger thing.  We know exactly what it is.  We stick together and
> >> consider our Quality to be better than those 
> others, it is the way it works.
> >>  We seek like-minded because of this 
> tendency of Quality.  Our free will, is
> >> to grow that wave, or not.
> >>
> >> Quality is the reason mass is condensed energy; it is energy, (or atoms if
> >> you
> >> will) in harmony.  Quality is the reason the sun coalesces into a ball of
> >> flame, and why the planets circle together 
> continuously (resembling a wave,
> >> mathematically).  It is the reason galaxies 
> spiral.  It is action shared, it
> >> is in harmony, because that is its tendency.
> >>
> >> Quality arrises from nowhere.  Where is the 
> wave on a guitar string before it
> >> is plucked? the music?  The same place 
> Quality is.  The string is struck and
> >> sound comes forth, in the same way the wave of Quality appears out of
> >> nowhere.
> >>  When guitar strings mix, you have music, if 
> it fits together (like minded)
> >> it
> >> grows.  Where are the waves on a still 
> lake.  They are there as potential..
> >>  Where is the electron when it is not there?  It is there, it is simply a
> >> flat
> >> wave (straight line), but there.  Where am I when I'm not here?  It's the
> >> same
> >> thing.
> >>
> >> Why does Quality trend towards harmony, or 
> growth, or being in phase?  That
> >> is
> >> obvious.  The intense love between between two people is the sharing and
> >> harmonic growth of Quality.  Quality loves itself, it runs with the pack..
> >>
> >> Is there anybody out there to harmonize with this post?
> >>
> >> Oh, well...
> >>
> >> Willblake2
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mar 27, 2009, at 12:22:21 PM, "Joseph 
> Maurer" <jhmau at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thursday 26 March 2009 10:59 PM Markhsmit writes to all:
> >>
> >>> Free will, which is another name for Quality, provides us with the
> >>> will to believe. We are free to believe in God, in Evolution, in
> >>> Happiness.. We are free to believe that scientific positivism is
> >>> the only reality, or one of many. Quality arrises in us through
> >>> Intent. Sometimes this Intent makes it as far as
> >>> our intellectual mind. We consider choices, and make them. Every
> >>> choice shuts down the alternative (you can't gain something without
> >>> losing something), but the choices thereafter are infinite. We take
> >>> the left fork in the path of an ever forking road. That free will
> >>> is Quality's expression. That free will began long before us.
> >>> Sometimes we call it Chance, or Chaos, or the Divine, or Self
> >>> Assembly, or a Selective Process. All Selective Processes are no
> >>> different from our own. They are all free will.
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Markhsmit,
> >>
> >> A song to ponder:
> >>
> >> Busted flat in Baton Rouge waiting for a train,
> >> Feeling just as faded as my Jeans!
> >> Bobby thumbed a Diesel down just before it rained.
> >> Took us all the way to New Orleans!
> >>
> >> I took my Harpoon out of my dirty red bandana,
> >> And was playing soft while Bobby sang the Blues!
> >> With those windshield wipers slapping time,
> >> And Bobby¹s hand enclosed in mine,
> >> We sang-up every song that driver knew
> >>
> >> Freedom¹s just another word for nothing left to lose!
> >> Freedom ain¹t worth nothing! But it¹s free!
> >> Feeling Good! Was easy, Lord! when Bobby sang the blues!
> >> Brother that was good enough for me!
> >> Good enough for me, and Bobby McGhee!
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3/26/09 10:59 PM, "markhsmit" <markhsmit at aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Free will, which is another name for 
> Quality, provides us with the will to
> >>> believe.  We are free to believe in God, in 
> Evolution, in Happiness....  We
> >>> are
> >>> free to believe that scientific positivism is the only reality, or one of
> >>> many.  Quality arrises in us through 
> Intent.  Sometimes this Intent makes it
> >>> as far as our intellectual mind.  We 
> consider choices, and make them.  Every
> >>> choice shuts down the alternative (you 
> can't gain something without losing
> >>> something), but the choices thereafter are 
> infinite.  We take the left fork
> >>> in
> >>> the path of an ever forking road.  That 
> free will is Quality's expression..
> >>>  That free will began long before us.  Sometimes we call it Chance, or
> >>> Chaos,
> >>> or the Divine, or Self Assembly, or a Selective Process.  All Selective
> >>> Processes are no different from our own.  They are all free will.
> >>>
> >>> Willblake2
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:30:14 PM, markhsmit <markhsmit at aol.com> wrote:
> >>> From: markhsmit <markhsmit at aol.com>
> >>> Subject: [MD] Quality and Free Will
> >>> Date: March 19, 2009 9:30:14 PM PDT
> >>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> >>> Quality exists.  We break it down into subjective patterns to discuss it,
> >>> little boxed systems.  We interpret Quality 
> through our senses, our dynamic
> >>> interplay with what is.  It is this 
> subjective patterning that is our true
> >>> free will, we are free to interpret the way things seem.  In fact that is
> >>> the
> >>> only free will we have.  Whether we turn right or left, feel good or bad,
> >>> makes no difference because we are still 
> within our interpretation.  However
> >>> that interpretation can change on a dime.
> >>>
> >>> Why does that freedom of interpretation 
> exist?  Does it exist in everything.
> >>>  Does it exist in Quality?  How much of it is free?  How much do we have
> >>> rational control over?  How much does survival control our freedom?
> >>>
> >>> At the interface of what's outside us and 
> within is constant communication.
> >>>  That communication results in feelings (or emotions, passions).  Our
> >>> intellectual brains are extensions of those feelings, nothing more, which
> >>> break them up into a million parts.  When I change my mind or become
> >>> temporarily enlightened, it's not because I 
> have collected enough facts (how
> >>> many is enough?), it's because it feels 
> right.  Our free will comes from the
> >>> interface.  It is neither within nor 
> without, it is that dynamic interplay.
> >>>  It is like music which comes from the 
> interface of the speaker and the air,
> >>> or the interface of the air and our 
> eardrums.  Somewhere in between..  Free
> >>> will is no more our actions than the forces 
> outside, it comes from somewhere
> >>> in between, and we feel it.  It is that 
> freewill that creates Quality.  Free
> >>> will is Quality.
> >>>
> >>> Willblake2
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
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