[MD] Quality and Free Will

MarshaV marshalz at charter.net
Mon Mar 30 12:28:18 PDT 2009 

Hi Joe,

It is an elegant little book about 
mindfulness.  It also comes in mp3 version read 
by Steve Hagen who has a wonderful plain spoken, Minnesota accent.


Marsha



At 02:56 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote:
>Hi Marsha,
>
>Thanks for the link
>
>Joe
>
>
>On 3/29/09 1:21 PM, "MarshaV" <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > 
> http://www.amazon.com/Buddhism-Plain-Simple-Steve-Hagen/dp/0767903323/ref=sr_1
> > _1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238358043&sr=1-1
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 03:54 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote:
> >> On Saturday 28 March 2009 9:04 PM Markhsmit writes to Joe:
> >>
> >> Hi Joe,
> >>>
> >>> I'm still having difficulty understanding the evolution of Quality.
> >>> This  would imply to me that new Quality is being formed, Quality
> >>> that did not exist before.  Has Quality evolved in the last 5000
> >>> years?  I am seriously asking this because it does not fit with my
> >>> current understanding, which may be erroneously Eastern (like the
> >>> Tao) at this point..  I am rereading Lila which may help me out.  My
> >>> conception of harmony is the temporary coalescence of Quality.  This
> >>> coalescence and dissipation is ongoing, an ebb and flow kind of
> >>> thing, rather than growth.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Hi Markhsmit, and All,
> >>
> >> I will ask you a question.  What tool are 
> you using to try to understand the
> >> evolution of quality?  SOM posits a distinction between body and mind,
> >> between real existence and intentional existence.  Evolution of quality is
> >> not understandable using a metaphysics based on a mind/body division.
> >>
> >> MOQ proposes an evolutionary law of 
> order.  Each manifestation in evolution
> >> combines DQundefined/SQdefined. The existence of the evolutionary order is
> >> real, not the supposed intentional existence created by a mind to give
> >> reality to an idea of order.  An inorganic rock exists in a different
> >> evolutionary order from an organic flower.  Time is not creative in
> >> cataloguing change, e,g, give it time.  Space does not create dimensions..
> >>
> >> These are my thoughts as I discuss a metaphysics of quality, MOQ.
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> On 3/28/09 9:04 PM, "markhsmit" <markhsmit at aol.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Joe,
> >>>
> >>> I'm still having difficulty understanding the evolution of Quality.  This
> >>> would imply to me that new Quality is being
> >> formed, Quality that did not exist
> >>> before.  Has Quality evolved in the last 
> 5000 years?  I am seriously asking
> >>> this because it does not fit with my current understanding, which may
> >>> be erroneously Eastern (like the Tao) at 
> this point..  I am rereading Lila
> >>>  which may help me out.  My conception of harmony is the
> >>> temporary coalescence of Quality.  This coalescence and dissipation is
> >>> ongoing, an ebb and flow kind of thing, rather than growth.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Willblake2
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mar 28, 2009, at 10:25:30 AM, "Joseph
> >> Maurer" <jhmau at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>> From:   "Joseph Maurer" <jhmau at sbcglobal.net>
> >>> Subject:    Re: [MD] Quality and Free Will
> >>> Date:   March 28, 2009 10:25:30 AM PDT
> >>> To: "moq_discuss at moqtalk.org" <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
> >>> On Friday 27 March 2009 10:36 PM Markhsmit writes:
> >>>
> >>> <snip>
> >>>> Why does Quality trend towards harmony, or growth, or being in
> >>>> phase? That is obvious. The intense love between between two
> >>>> people is the sharing and harmonic growth of Quality. Quality loves
> >>>> itself, it runs with the pack.
> >>>
> >>>> Is there anybody out there to harmonize with this post?
> >>>
> >>> Hi Markhsmit,
> >>>
> >>> The existence of quality also evolves to distinct levels. That makes
> >>> harmony possible. Different levels of existence.
> >>>
> >>> Joe
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 3/27/09 10:34 PM, "markhsmit" <markhsmit at aol.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks Joe,
> >>>>
> >>>> That's exactly what I meant!  Nothing (left) to lose, not even Bobby..
> >>>>
> >>>> Quality (as expressed through free will)
> >> trends towards harmonics (for lack
> >>>> of
> >>>> a better word).   This harmony has no human
> >> value associated with it, it can
> >>>> be bad or good, beautiful or ugly. It 
> attracts and connects,  reverberates
> >>>> and
> >>>> grows in a crowd.  It is the reason for the crowd, and then it subsides.
> >>>>   Quality is like a wave, when it meets similar waves of itself, it is
> >>>> additive (does not cancel) and Quality
> >> Grows.  Take for example an orchestra
> >>>> playing in the same key, the individual 
> music is additive and intoxicating
> >>>> for
> >>>> the players and crowd (who add to the growth of the Quality).  Take for
> >>>> example a group of people enjoying a hike, the Quality shared between is
> >>>> additive, its much more fun to share.  Quality is additive in a football
> >>>> stadium amongst the crowd, and is additive
> >> in a panic during a fire.  Quality
> >>>> seeks this harmony.  Harmonic Quality is present during a presidential
> >>>> election, and on a battlefield to the
> >> death.  Harmonic Quality is the reason
> >>>> religions and philosophies grow.  It is the reason for communal greed
> >>>> and possessiveness, for the shared fear of death.
> >>>>
> >>>> Quality is shared through the exchange of ideas, it can be considered
> >>>> contagious except that it is not passed
> >> along, but is the source.  Language
> >>>> is
> >>>> the vector for exchange.  Ever meditated with a group of monks?
> >>>>  It's incredible.  That is the harmonic
> >> growth of Quality.  It's how Quality
> >>>> trends.  We know when we are in this group
> >> Quality, we feel swept away, part
> >>>> of a larger thing.  We know exactly what it is.  We stick together and
> >>>> consider our Quality to be better than those
> >> others, it is the way it works.
> >>>>  We seek like-minded because of this
> >> tendency of Quality.  Our free will, is
> >>>> to grow that wave, or not.
> >>>>
> >>>> Quality is the reason mass is condensed 
> energy; it is energy, (or atoms if
> >>>> you
> >>>> will) in harmony.  Quality is the reason 
> the sun coalesces into a ball of
> >>>> flame, and why the planets circle together
> >> continuously (resembling a wave,
> >>>> mathematically).  It is the reason galaxies
> >> spiral.  It is action shared, it
> >>>> is in harmony, because that is its tendency.
> >>>>
> >>>> Quality arrises from nowhere.  Where is the
> >> wave on a guitar string before it
> >>>> is plucked? the music?  The same place
> >> Quality is.  The string is struck and
> >>>> sound comes forth, in the same way the wave of Quality appears out of
> >>>> nowhere.
> >>>>  When guitar strings mix, you have music, if
> >> it fits together (like minded)
> >>>> it
> >>>> grows.  Where are the waves on a still
> >> lake.  They are there as potential..
> >>>>  Where is the electron when it is not 
> there?  It is there, it is simply a
> >>>> flat
> >>>> wave (straight line), but there.  Where am 
> I when I'm not here?  It's the
> >>>> same
> >>>> thing.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why does Quality trend towards harmony, or
> >> growth, or being in phase?  That
> >>>> is
> >>>> obvious.  The intense love between between two people is the sharing and
> >>>> harmonic growth of Quality.  Quality loves 
> itself, it runs with the pack..
> >>>>
> >>>> Is there anybody out there to harmonize with this post?
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh, well...
> >>>>
> >>>> Willblake2
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mar 27, 2009, at 12:22:21 PM, "Joseph
> >> Maurer" <jhmau at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thursday 26 March 2009 10:59 PM Markhsmit writes to all:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Free will, which is another name for Quality, provides us with the
> >>>>> will to believe. We are free to believe in God, in Evolution, in
> >>>>> Happiness.. We are free to believe that scientific positivism is
> >>>>> the only reality, or one of many. Quality arrises in us through
> >>>>> Intent. Sometimes this Intent makes it as far as
> >>>>> our intellectual mind. We consider choices, and make them. Every
> >>>>> choice shuts down the alternative (you can't gain something without
> >>>>> losing something), but the choices thereafter are infinite. We take
> >>>>> the left fork in the path of an ever forking road. That free will
> >>>>> is Quality's expression. That free will began long before us.
> >>>>> Sometimes we call it Chance, or Chaos, or the Divine, or Self
> >>>>> Assembly, or a Selective Process. All Selective Processes are no
> >>>>> different from our own. They are all free will.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Markhsmit,
> >>>>
> >>>> A song to ponder:
> >>>>
> >>>> Busted flat in Baton Rouge waiting for a train,
> >>>> Feeling just as faded as my Jeans!
> >>>> Bobby thumbed a Diesel down just before it rained.
> >>>> Took us all the way to New Orleans!
> >>>>
> >>>> I took my Harpoon out of my dirty red bandana,
> >>>> And was playing soft while Bobby sang the Blues!
> >>>> With those windshield wipers slapping time,
> >>>> And Bobby¹s hand enclosed in mine,
> >>>> We sang-up every song that driver knew
> >>>>
> >>>> Freedom¹s just another word for nothing left to lose!
> >>>> Freedom ain¹t worth nothing! But it¹s free!
> >>>> Feeling Good! Was easy, Lord! when Bobby sang the blues!
> >>>> Brother that was good enough for me!
> >>>> Good enough for me, and Bobby McGhee!
> >>>>
> >>>> Joe
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 3/26/09 10:59 PM, "markhsmit" <markhsmit at aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Free will, which is another name for
> >> Quality, provides us with the will to
> >>>>> believe.  We are free to believe in God, in
> >> Evolution, in Happiness....  We
> >>>>> are
> >>>>> free to believe that scientific 
> positivism is the only reality, or one of
> >>>>> many.  Quality arrises in us through
> >> Intent.  Sometimes this Intent makes it
> >>>>> as far as our intellectual mind.  We
> >> consider choices, and make them.  Every
> >>>>> choice shuts down the alternative (you
> >> can't gain something without losing
> >>>>> something), but the choices thereafter are
> >> infinite.  We take the left fork
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> the path of an ever forking road.  That
> >> free will is Quality's expression..
> >>>>>  That free will began long before us.  Sometimes we call it Chance, or
> >>>>> Chaos,
> >>>>> or the Divine, or Self Assembly, or a Selective Process.  All Selective
> >>>>> Processes are no different from our own.  They are all free will.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Willblake2
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:30:14 PM, markhsmit <markhsmit at aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>> From: markhsmit <markhsmit at aol.com>
> >>>>> Subject: [MD] Quality and Free Will
> >>>>> Date: March 19, 2009 9:30:14 PM PDT
> >>>>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> >>>>> Quality exists.  We break it down into 
> subjective patterns to discuss it,
> >>>>> little boxed systems.  We interpret Quality
> >> through our senses, our dynamic
> >>>>> interplay with what is.  It is this
> >> subjective patterning that is our true
> >>>>> free will, we are free to interpret the 
> way things seem.  In fact that is
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> only free will we have.  Whether we turn 
> right or left, feel good or bad,
> >>>>> makes no difference because we are still
> >> within our interpretation.  However
> >>>>> that interpretation can change on a dime.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why does that freedom of interpretation
> >> exist?  Does it exist in everything.
> >>>>>  Does it exist in Quality?  How much of 
> it is free?  How much do we have
> >>>>> rational control over?  How much does survival control our freedom?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At the interface of what's outside us and
> >> within is constant communication.
> >>>>>  That communication results in feelings (or emotions, passions).  Our
> >>>>> intellectual brains are extensions of 
> those feelings, nothing more, which
> >>>>> break them up into a million parts.  When I change my mind or become
> >>>>> temporarily enlightened, it's not because I
> >> have collected enough facts (how
> >>>>> many is enough?), it's because it feels
> >> right.  Our free will comes from the
> >>>>> interface.  It is neither within nor
> >> without, it is that dynamic interplay.
> >>>>>  It is like music which comes from the
> >> interface of the speaker and the air,
> >>>>> or the interface of the air and our
> >> eardrums.  Somewhere in between..  Free
> >>>>> will is no more our actions than the forces
> >> outside, it comes from somewhere
> >>>>> in between, and we feel it.  It is that
> >> freewill that creates Quality.  Free
> >>>>> will is Quality.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Willblake2
> >>>>>
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> >
> > .
> > _____________
> >
> > Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll 
> land among the stars..........
> > .
> > .
> >
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.
_____________

Shoot for the moon.  Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.........
.
.

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