[MD] Joseph Campbell

[markhsmit]

Arlo,

I don't think we are speaking about the same thing.  It appears that you believe that
social justice (whatever you think that may be) should be placed above merit.  You feel
there is an equation for what is right and what is wrong that is based on some
obscure PC values.  I'm not sure what book you are getting your instructions from,
but I would check the author.  Your responses seem to border on the extreme and
obscene.  All this talk about retards, as you call them has left a bad feeling in my
mouth about what exactly is going on in your head.  All this fear of Christianity,
all it is is faith.  I fear that if I answer your question about the underrepresentation
of women in the supreme court, you will take offense and begin worrying
that your values do not match mine.

Are you serious with your responses below.  When did I say you insulted me?  This
ghost of PC that is looking over your shoulder is making you awfully paranoid.
Truly, I do not want to oppress women and children, or water-board my neighbor.
Contrary to your belief, I do not want to suppress the minority, or claim they are a 
problem.  On the contrary, it is the white majority that is the problem, they are confused.
However I can see from your fear that you think that all this is a possibility of what may 
happen, and you want to nip it in the bud, so to speak.  The world is not as evil
as you may think it is.  Relax, this is just a conversation, I'm not threatening.

About Obama, he is just a president, nothing more, not your king.  Far be it for me to
claim that there is an intelligence difference between whites and blacks,
the history of the world just does not support that notion.  Men and women
think exactly the same way about things, no difference.  There is only that small
trivial difference...

Rather than take assault at my responses point by point (which is more like boxing
than discussing), could you provide a cogent argument as to why current PC dictates are so 
much better than the way man used to behave towards his fellow man in the past?
Could you provide me with examples of how exactly this PC brought about this change.
You could possibly site some examples of PC regulations, their target, and their
outcome.  Maybe perhaps then I will understand what you are trying to say.  Maybe
a good place to start would be how PC defeated the Klan, your suggestion not mine.

Cheers,
Willblake2

On May 5, 2009, at 9:01:09 PM, "ARLO J BENSINGER JR" <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:
[WillBlake] 
I know you are fully on board with this trend, Arlo, but please do not 
denigrate your intelligence by reverting to examples of nonsense. Think before 
you write. 

[Arlo] 
Ye gads. Don't tell me you're gonna start with the Platt-tactics. Look, as I 
said, the "extreme examples" you find absurd are ONLY absurd TODAY, as a result 
of a generation or more of "PC". THAT'S the point. 

By the way, can you tell me where I was this insulting to you in my last 
response? 

[WillBlake] 
According to your post, PC includes everything that promotes vocal respect for 
another. 

[Arlo] 
No, "PC" is any attempt to frame an issue or set a response by using specific 
language. In many ways, this has been GOOD, in the examples I cited, and how my 
daughter's generation is more respectful of things that my generation responded 
to with outright cruelty. 

But PC has also been manipulated dangerously, by ideologues of both political 
parties to manipulate and congeal power. The "intelligent reply" is to know how 
to separate the two, or talk about ways of discussing context to determine 
whether or not something is good, bad or just superfluous excess (like 
"sanitation engineers"). 

[WillBlake] 
Protecting minorities is certainly not something I am against. 

[Arlo] 
We are all minorities in specific ways, and this changes quickly based on 
context (as you found in Hawaii). The problems always begin when one group 
claims superiority, it might be "cool" when you are in the in-crowd, but very 
uncool when you are not. 

[WillBlake] 
Examples of where PC goes overboard? Sure, there are plenty. 

[Arlo] 
Yes there are. And in each case the more intelligent reply would be to examine 
the context, to ask the right questions, and work together towards a solution. 
Why did black and hispanic firemen do more poorly on that fireman test than 
whites? Is that nationwide? Unique to Boston? Is it access to training? Or 
would you say that whites are simply genetically superior firemen? Or that 
black and hispanic firemen are lazy or stupid? 

No one should want unqualified people to be the emergency respondants to our 
homes, but the question in larger in this context. If everyone could sit down 
and legitimately figure out "why" blacks and hispanics did worse, and then seek 
to improve that situation, then everyone would have MORE qualified people to 
protect their homes. 

[WillBlake] 
... The claim that the next person on the supreme court should be a woman is PC 
at work. 

[Arlo] 
The claim that if you are against waterboard torture you want America to lose 
the "war". The claim that if you oppose the war at all you want to see dead 
American troops. The claim that if you support Obama you are a socialist or a 
tyrant. The repeated use of "Hussein" by those who attack Obama. The constant 
pandering to fear when discussing immigration. 

Yes, the list is quite long. 

But to your last point, let me ask you this. Do you feel women are 
underqualified on average to be Justicies on the Supreme Court? If not, why do 
YOU feel they have been under-represented? More than half our population is 
female, why does this ratio not carry over to our Court or our Presidency? Can 
you answer me that? 

[WillBlake] 
PC undermines the whole notion of equal rights, the freedom of religion, the 
protection of family rights, the right to privacy, the right to fire a woman 
if she doesn't show up to work consistently because she is taking care of a 
child, the right to hire and fire people because of their color... 

[Arlo] 
Are you serious? I was beginning to think we have some common ground, but I hit 
this paragraph and see that's not the case at all. What you're saying, as I see 
it, is that an oppressed minority should just shut up and tough it out, and if 
things never change for them, oh well too bad for them. 

And how exactly does "PC" undermine "family rights"? Answer me that one please. 

[WillBlake] 
... the right to air ones views on the inferiority of another race... 

[Arlo] 
Really? THIS is what you are up riled up about? That some people don't have the 
"right" to "air views" about how their race is superior to others? I think they 
have this right. Hell, that Newsweek article I sent details the public and 
vocal recruiting of Supremicist groups. There are tons of internet sites set up 
to advance the racial superiority of one group. No one is taking them down. 

[WillBlake] 
... the stopping proven success in choosing to pay more attention to plane  
passengers  who are arabic, the right to protest taxes because you are not 
patriotic enough, the right to disagree with a vocal minority who controls the 
majority, our freedom of speech.   

I could go on. 

[Arlo] 
It seems from your list that you are coming at this from a predominantly 
"right-wing" view that paints minorities are the source of the problem, and 
seeks to give a pass to the hatred and evil that they are fighting. While I 
admit to being concerned about rabid uses of PC to assault critics of our 
government, I really have little concern for whether or not someone feels their 
"right" to call another person a "nigger" or a "spic" is threatened. 

And I'll ask again, your advice to those who are targeted by hate is to 
basically "Buck up and get over it", would that be your advice to those you 
mention above who are being treated, in your view, unfairly? 

Indeed, if you feel whites are Christians are being treated unfairly, why isn't 
your advice to them to "Buck up and get over it, to work for earning respect!"? 

[WillBlake] 
If you claim it is the current PC mania which accomplished all of our societal 
advances in terms of respect and tolerance, then you are talking about 
something completely different. 

[Arlo] 
No, I'm just taking a broad, historical view of it. Why is "retard" a word my 
daughter tells me she never hears in school, when a generation ago my class 
drove a kid out of our school with constant bombardment of such slurs? Magic? 
What causes the increase, even if its ever so slight, in improving the way we 
as a people treat the mentally-handicapped? I say, a large part of it was the 
efforts of "PC". 

[WillBlake] 
What was PC called 50 years ago? 

[Arlo] 
Don't think it was called anything. It was a grand utopia where the Klan held 
public cross-burnings, harassed "niggers" and "chinks" were the target of 
excessive violence in the Pacific areas. Mentally-handicapped kids were called 
retards, and Bob the Black Guy could work his entire life to earn respect and 
still be called "boy" and denied jobs less qualified whites were getting. Women 
stayed at home and wore aprons and were good subservient pieces of property to 
their husbands. Gays were called "faggots" and publicly and openly assaulted, 
ridiculed and harassed. 

I think we've come a long way, although we have a lot more growing to do. 


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