[MD] Northrop and the failure of neo-conservative free

[Platt Holden]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andre Broersen" <andrebroersen at gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 5:27 AM

> Platt to andre:
> You mean I don't understand plain English?
>
> Andre:
> I am sure you do Platt, but do you comprehend it? This means going into 
> some
> depth realising whatever you say has some sort of history (and a rich 
> one).

Yes, and the same applies to you. Do you comprehend the history of the MOQ
and why Pirsig favors free markets over SOM socialism?

> Platt:
> Those doctrines as you call them are irrelevant to Pirsig's reason for
> endorsing free market capitalism over socialism. Do you think any of them
> ever imagined anything like Dynamic Quality?
>
> Andre:
> Those doctrines are what set Pirsig on the road to writing ZMM and Lila. 
> He
> recognised the defect in them.

Right. In the MOQ he overcomes the defect in SOM.

> Platt:
> Pirsig's indictment is aimed at the flaw in SOM intellect's attempts to
> manage society. Surely you don't believe that Marxist socialist doctrines
> somehow escaped SOM..
>
> Andre:
> Now we are getting closer Platt, Pirsig is not only aiming his attack at
> socialist societies. Socialist societies have not escaped SOM.All modern,
> Western societies have evolved from the same 'philosophical' tree. As
> Anthony suggests: Read Northrop!

Right, and you don't need to read Northrop to know that after reading Lila.

> Platt:
> Are you suggesting socialists and communists don't exist? As for free 
> market
> capitalism being degenerating, I agree with Pirsig's opposite view that it
> is a "Dynamic institution."
>
> Andre:
> Yes, it is dynamic, but Pirsig himself, having recognised his own 'radical
> bias' ( causing him to think of Dynamic Quality alone and neglect static
> patterns of quality) came to the conclusion that 'Life cannot exist on
> Dynamic Quality alone...To cling to Dynamic Quality alone apart from any
> static patterns is to cling to chaos' (Lila p 124). It is precisely
> the social and intellectual static patterns that have evolved from from 
> the
> likes of Locke, Descartes, Adam Smith, etc, etc  Pirsig laments.
> This unbridled Dynamic Quality has, economically turned into the Giant (as
> Pirsig calls it). It has, and continues to convert 'accumulated biological
> energy into forms that serve itself'. The value of a human being is 
> measured
> by the extent to which it is useful as an economic unit. And if you are 
> ill,
> or incapacitated in some way, or fired or, heaven forbid, if you do not 
> want
> to play in this game, you are considered useless, a bludger, a misfit, a
> burden on society.

And if you are a SOM leftist you pretend to care about all the "victims" of 
the
mean, selfish capitalists so you can pose as their savior and vote for laws 
that
make them dependent on government in order to gain power for yourself.

> And, if intellectually, you place question marks as to the morality of 
> this
> institution you are labelled a commie.

Do you ever question the morality of socialism? Why is it moral to seek
power over others who mind their own business and never initiate physical
force on anyone?

> Plat:
>> I'm disappointed.
> Me too. It seems your anti-protestant and philosophical/political/economic
> views have
> built up an immunity in your mind against what Pirsig actually says.
>
> Andre:
> Not sure what you mean here Platt. I do however think that most of the 
> above
> mentioned ideas and convictions have proven to be of low quality.And I do
> not have many static patterns to which I desperately cling and attempt
> to fit Pirsig's observations as justification around them. In that sense I
> have very little to lose.

When I review the history of the 20th century I find the various forms of
socialism as practiced to be of far lower quality than capitalism. I was 
under
the impression you came to the same conclusion with your experience in
China. Perhaps I was mistaken.

> And, as always I stand corrected.

And, as always I could be wrong.

Regards,
Platt