[MD] Philosophy, Metaphysics, and Common Sense

[Matt Kundert]

Bo said:
All philosophers and historians point to this time as a great 
watershed in history, mostly it's the usual "democracy", but some 
see deeper upheavals of which democracy and science were mere 
fallouts (Owen Barfield f.ex) Pirsig's however is the grandest and 
most convincing interpretation. 

Matt:
In my experience, all philosophers and most classicists point to 
"philosophy" as the watershed thing that happened.  For a long 
time, I wished they said "democracy," but now I'm pretty sure we 
should be a bit more nuanced, and the big thing is clearly the 
transition from "primary oral culture" (the term used to denote a 
culture that has, basically, never even heard of a thing called 
written language) to a post-literate culture.  And while I still like 
to say a "big thing" happened, I say "nuanced" because I think 
we need a more complex story about cultural evolution then just 
pointing to all the potential precursors to Descartes' explicit S/O 
dichotomy (and, hell, not even his, it was probably some German's 
construction).  Because, as you say,

Bo said:
And of course the subject/object term were still far into the future 
(not to speak about mind/matter) yet the idea is that the notion of 
principles deeper that the old mythological reality triggered a new 
attitude. Its first fallout was Socrates' Appearance/Truth, then 
Plato's Shadows/Ideas and finally Aristotle's Form/Substance. The 
first indicating the fleeting, transient element, the latter the eternal 
permanent one. This split to become the fundament of the 
Western SOM-based culture. (The East to have transcended it) 
Now so cemented that you folks don't even manage to imagine  
yourself outside of it.

You might say I'm just trying to be more historically conscientious, 
but I'm sure there's more going on with you.  But then your last 
statement pretty much expresses fully why conversation about 
the matter is boring.

Matt

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