[MD] Is it serious?

Wed May 20 05:17:55 PDT 2009

Hi Ron,

Exactly!  That's how I see it.  I am most curious, though, what Ham 
thinks is the real self.  Some of his statements I could agree with, 
but not as an independent self.  -   But maybe Ham is not responding 
to my posts?  Maybe I've been too acrimonious.  I suppose sugar and 
spice, and everything nice isn't one of my active patterns.

Marsha

At 08:02 AM 5/20/2009, you wrote:
>Threre is the cultural self, the small self. The self assumed in essentialism
>The self concieved as isolated and distinct from the environment.
>
>This self is the self which does not exist as it is commonly percieved.
>This self is the one molded by culture, a culture built on the assumptions of
>an objective reality viewed by a subjective observer, seperate and distinct,
>independant, subject to the boundaries of that culture. The one predicated
>in the noun "I" a static substantive of the verb "to be".
>
>Then
>
>There is awareness, an awareness dependant and emergent from
>the environment, the large self, the one which is boundless and ever
>changing.
>
>To confuse the two as one, leads to paradox, thats when we look for it
>in nuerons and synapses and find it lacking, thats when we look for it
>by rationalizing and inventing purpose and origin.
>
>A "radical metaphysics" is a metaphysic of the development
>of the large self of awareness one of your own private expereince.
>The large self is Quality, the small self is the subjective observer
>in an objective universe, the large self IS the universe, aware.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net>
>To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 3:59:02 AM
>Subject: Re: [MD] Is it serious?
>
>
>Will,
>
>I do not see any problems with the MOQ as it is, it is perfect.  The
>conflict seems to be one of interpretation and getting caught within
>the patterns.  imho.  I love your last paragraph, it is wonderful,
>but I could be content being the moon.
>
>
>Marsha
>
>
>
>
>At 11:22 PM 5/19/2009, you wrote:
> >Hi Marsha,
> >
> >I hadn't thought of the words in that way before.
> >
> >Nice.
> >
> >Yes, letting go of self, of the ego, of self consciousness.  The attainment
> >of truth, liberation, as the Upanishads, Buddha, Taoism, Zen, would all
> >claim.  I believe in that and am working towards that too.
> >
> >I would seem from recent interpretations of MoQ (which is obviously
> >still in the making) that such release is not consistent with this
> >philosophy.  In fact the claim is we are subject to group behavior
> >not individual expression.
> >
> >But, as Pirsig has said in interviews, MoQ is waiting for the next
> >independent thinker, to carry it along.  It would seem Pirsig is
> >waiting as well.  Plato had his academy, current philosophies have
> >the Internet.  Much more powerful and capable of generating
> >a synthesis of ideas, and even new ones, if there is actually
> >something new under the sun.  What an opportunity!
> >
> >Me, I want to live from the inside out, not the outside in; I want to
> >radiate, not absorb, , I wantto be a sun, not a black hole, I want to be
> >responsible, not a victim.  All this can result from freedom
> >of the confining, needing, ego, "grasping and clinging" as a
> >translation of the early writers of Buddha's teachings would stress.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >Willblake2
> >
> >On May 18, 2009, at 12:58:47 AM, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
> >Hello Will,
> >
> >The song 'Suicide is Painless' seems to be perfect to accompany your
> >Alan Watts piece.  It is about life and very playful  For me, it's
> >always been about the suicide of the ego, 'and I and take or leave
> >it, if I please', and 'The sword of time will pierce our skins'. The
> >reference to time is ego. It seems full Buddhist wisdom relating to
> >pain and suffering, and letting go.  I bet Alan Watts would have
> >loved the song.
> >
> >Here are the lyrics:
> >
> >Through early morning fog I see visions of the things to be
> >The pains that are withheld for me I realize and I can see . . .
> >That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
> >And I can take or leave it if I please.
> >
> >I try to find a way to make all our little joys relate
> >Without that ever-present hate but now I know that it's too late,
> >and . . .That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
> >And I can take or leave it if I please.
> >
> >The game of life is hard to play. I'm gonna lose it anyway.
> >The losing card I'll someday lay so this is all I have to say.
> >That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
> >And I can take or leave it if I please.
> >
> >The only way to win is cheat and lay it down before I'm beat,
> >and to another give my seat for that's the only painless feat.
> >That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
> >And I can take or leave it if I please.
> >
> >The sword of time will pierce our skins it doesn't hurt when it begins
> >But as it works its way on in the pain grows stronger . . . watch it
> >grin, but . . .
> >That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
> >And I can take or leave it if I please.
> >
> >A brave man once requested me to answer questions that are key
> >'Is it to be or not to be' and I replied 'oh why ask me?'
> >That suicide is painless it brings on many changes
> >And I can take or leave it if I please.
> >And you can do the same thing if you choose.
> >____
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 03:08 PM 5/17/2009, you wrote:
> > >Bring back so many memories.  Thanks for that, it made my day!
> > >
> > >Willblake2
> > >
> > >
> > >On May 17, 2009, at 10:33:51 AM, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >An analogy with music, my favorite song:
> > >
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yc52NckGLs
> > >
> > >
> > >Marsha
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >At 01:20 PM 5/17/2009, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >Grab a cup of coffee, relax, spend 9 minutes with Alan Watts "Is
> > > it serious?"
> > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asqd1H4IluQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdeoxy%
> > > 2Eorg%2Fvidplay%3Fv%3Dasqd1H4IluQ&feature=player_embedded
> > > >
> > > >Willblake2
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >.
> >_____________
> >
> >The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, interrelated and
> >interconnected, inorganic, biological, social and intellectual,
> >static patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality.
> >
> >.
> >.
> >
> >
> >
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>
>.
>_____________
>
>The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, interrelated and
>interconnected, inorganic, biological, social and intellectual,
>static patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality.
>
>.
>.
>
>
>
>Moq_Discuss mailing list
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>
>
>
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.
_____________

The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, interrelated and 
interconnected, inorganic, biological, social and intellectual, 
static patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality.

.
.