[MD] Is it serious?

[MarshaV]

Will,

It is the East and West embracing and pointing to the Moon.


Marsha



At 09:59 PM 5/20/2009, you wrote:
>Hi Marsha,
>
>What do you find perfect about MoQ?  I feel I am missing an
>awful lot.
>
>Thanks,
>Willblake2
>
>On May 20, 2009, at 12:06:25 AM, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
>From:   MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net>
>Subject:    Re: [MD] Is it serious?
>Date:   May 20, 2009 12:06:25 AM PDT
>To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>
>Greetings Ham,
>
>I do not know where your knowledge of Buddhism comes from, but
>Buddhism, at its core, is all about 'know thyself', and all about
>insight, and all about morality. A smart man knows what he does not know.
>
>
>Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
>At 01:17 AM 5/20/2009, you wrote:
> >Hi WillBlake --
> >
> >
> >>Yes, letting go of self, of the ego, of self consciousness.
> >>The attainment of truth, liberation, as the Upanishads, Buddha,
> >>Taoism, Zen, would all claim. I believe in that and am working
> >>towards that too.
> >>
> >>It would seem from recent interpretations of MoQ (which is
> >>obviously still in the making) that such release is not consistent
> >>with this philosophy. In fact the claim is we are subject to
> >>group behavior not individual expression.
> >
> >Sad but true. One has to acknowledge the self of consciousness
> >before he can let go of it.
> >Relegating ego and consciousness to a collective intellect is a step
> >in the opposite direction. It denies the very self that seeks
> >liberation and truth -- even the freedom to choose that path. For
> >if there is no knowing 'I' to realize truth, if we have surrendered
> >the subjective self to the objective universe, what is there left 
> to liberate?
> >
> >>But, as Pirsig has said in interviews, MoQ is waiting for the next
> >>independent thinker, to carry it along. It would seem Pirsig is
> >>waiting as well. Plato had his academy, current philosophies have
> >>the Internet. Much more powerful and capable of generating
> >>a synthesis of ideas, and even new ones, if there is actually
> >>something new under the sun. What an opportunity!
> >
> >There's nothing new under the sun, but there is much to be revealed
> >about existence if we don't approach it with a closed
> >mind. Socrates said "The unexamined life is not worth living." But
> >introspection is meaningless to those who deny the insight it can
> >afford us. How often has Science been accused in this forum of
> >failing to answer ultimate questions? Yet, the same voices are
> >quick to demean spirituality and metaphysical insight as mythical
> >remnants of an unenlightened age.
> >
> >Psychiatrist Richard Schain has written:
> >"The tendency to neglect the metaphysical aspect of human life has
> >always existed in the history of mankind but no era has so
> >depreciated and disparaged metaphysics as the current
> >one. Metaphysics is relegated to the realm of scholarly study or
> >traditional religions where it exists in a tethered, tradition-bound
> >form of little use to those seeking to develop their position in the
> >universe. ...
> >
> >"'...[T]he essential feature in the life of an individual is his
> >valuation of his interior self, i.e. his subjective self. There is
> >no greater tragedy than the failure of an individual to realize this
> >value. What hinders this development, however, is the modern view
> >that there is no such thing as the self, that there is only a
> >complex arrangement of synapses and neurons in the brain, giving
> >rise to the illusion of self. Without a belief in the metaphysical
> >self, humans are at the mercy of their environment, which in the
> >present age fares little for the development of an interior
> >self. Only a radical metaphysics will save the individual from
> >drowning in the swamps of the materialist dogmas of contemporary society."
> > -- [R. Schain: "Toward a Radical Metaphysics"]
> >
> >>Me, I want to live from the inside out, not the outside in; I want to
> >>radiate, not absorb. . . I want to be a sun, not a black hole, I want
> >>to be responsible, not a victim. All this can result from freedom
> >>of the confining, needing, ego, "grasping and clinging" as a
> >>translation of the early writers of Buddha's teachings would stress.
> >
> >As agents of value, we are all potential "suns". But if we cease
> >desiring, as the Buddhists prescribe for "avoiding pain", we shut
> >off the value sensibility that connects us with our essential
> >source. That's retreating to a "black hole" existence in which
> >being-aware has no more meaning than the insentient rock and human
> >beings are pawns of biological evolution.
> >
> >We'll never understand man's place in the universe by pretending
> >that subjects and objects don't exist.
> >
> >I share your sentiments, Will. Thanks for giving me this
> >opportunity to reflect on them.
> >
> >Essentially yours,
> >Ham
> >Moq_Discuss mailing list
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>
>
>.
>_____________
>
>The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, interrelated and
>interconnected, inorganic, biological, social and intellectual,
>static patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality.
>
>.
>.
>
>
>
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>
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.
_____________

The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, interrelated and 
interconnected, inorganic, biological, social and intellectual, 
static patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality.

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