[MD] Protestant Capitalism

Thu May 21 06:46:29 PDT 2009

Ron:
Bo posits, that MoQ evolutionarily emerges from the s/o intellectual level.
He maintains that DQ/SQ is the way reality REALLY is divided.

Marsha:
Well, maybe that is Bo's ferryboat.

Ron:
He thinks he can solve the SOM dilemma by redefining SOM terms
and replacing them with MoQ terms. When the problem really lies in the
intellectual conceptualization of entities as what "is".

Marsha:
If only replacing language was so easy.  Hahaha!

I didn't come to that understanding here.  I had 
to pack up my little patterns and visit 
Buddhaland.  Where with great effort, more than a 
few tears and some stomach aches I GOT 
IT.  Unfortunately, my understanding is still in 
the realm of intellectual understanding to 
varying degrees.  At least I am out of the box 
and have replaced the TiTs-perspective with the 
dependent-origination (Pratityasamutpada) 
understanding.  I still know very little, but I 
know I can never go back...  And it shouldn't have to be that haphazard.

(Wow, it's amazing, even to me, how willing I am to make a fool of myself.)

But, regardless, I think what Bo is suggesting has value.

Marsha

At 09:19 AM 5/21/2009, you wrote:
>Marsha, Bo posits, that MoQ evolutionarily 
>emerges from the s/o intellectual level. He 
>maintains that DQ/SQ is the way realityÂ REALLY 
>is divided. He thinks he can solve the SOM 
>dilemma by redefining SOM terms and replacing 
>them with MoQ terms. When the problem really 
>lies in the intellectual conceptualization of 
>entities as what "is". -Ron 
>________________________________ From: X Acto 
><xacto at rocketmail.com> To: 
>moq_discuss at moqtalk.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 
>2009 8:54:14 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Protestant 
>Capitalism Marsha, But that is what Bo is 
>saying, that only through intellect may we come 
>to the MoQ. -Ron 
>________________________________ From: MarshaV 
><marshalz at charter.net> To: 
>moq_discuss at moqtalk.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 
>2009 8:50:59 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Protestant 
>Capitalism Ron, I'm talking, like Bo, of the 
>explanatory strength of the MOQ.Â  It seems to 
>me that if it is clearly stated that the 
>Intellectual Level is of subject/object patterns 
>it becomes very clear that dwelling in the 
>Intellectual Level (no how exalted it seems) is 
>not going to get you to the MOQ point-of-view. 
>Marsha At 08:43 AM 5/21/2009, you wrote: > 
>Marsha, I think the point is clinging to that 
>entrapment. It takes a bravery and a 
>fearlessness to overcome it. As the Sophists say 
>and many others, excellence is a practice, like 
>the entrapment. We were taught to practice s/o 
>over a long period of growth like wise we must 
>teach ourselves and reinforce excellence over a 
>long peroid of growth. The impossiblity of 
>escape disolves with the practice of excellence. 
>I have found the four agreements works well 
>within the four levels of excellence and 
>reinforces their meaning. Ruiz says that by 
>slowly breaking the agreements made with the 
>small self and replacing them with the 
>agreements of Quality, through practice we will 
>be free of it. they are: Ã‚Â  BE IMPECCABLE WITH 
>YOUR WORD Speak with integrity. Say only what 
>you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against 
>yourself or to gossip about others. Use the 
>power of your word in the direction of truth and 
>love.Ã‚Â  DONÃ¢€™T TAKE ANYTHITHING PERSONALLY 
>Nothing others do is because of you. What others 
>say and do is a projection of their own reality, 
>their own dream. When you are immune to the 
>opinions of others, you wonÃ¢€™t be the victim 
>of needless sufferinging.Ã‚Â  DONÃ¢€™T MAKE 
>ASSUMPTIONS Find the courage to ao ask questions 
>and to express what you really want. Communicate 
>with others as clearly as you can to avoid 
>misunderstandings, sadness, and drama. With just 
>this one agreement, you can completely transform 
>your life.Ã‚Â  ALWAYS DO YOUR BEST Your best is 
>going to change from moment to moment; it will 
>be different when you are healthy as 
>opposedÃ‚Â  to sick. Under any circumstance, 
>simply do your best, and you will avoid 
>self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret. 
>Ã‚Â  Ã‚Â  Ã‚Â  ________________________________ 
>From: MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> To: 
>moq_discuss at moqtalk.org Sent: Thursday, May 21, 
>2009 5:50:48 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Protestant 
>Capitalism Ron, Don't you think Bo has a valid 
>point.Ã‚Â  It seems impossible to breakaway from 
>the subject/object chatter which is entrapment. 
>Marsha At 04:17 AM 5/21/2009, you 
>wrote: >Ron > >On 19 May you wrote: > > > Are 
>you saying that Platt is on firm MoQ ground by 
>being > > anti-intellectual? > >Yes, the 
>greatest obstacle is the 4th. level because - 
>prior to the MOQ >- it was 
>realityÃ‚Â  itselfÃ‚Â  (like the 3rd and 2nd. 
>and 1st have been in their >time) Platt isn't 
>"anti-intellectual", but sees the 4th. level 
>for >what it is, >namely a static level that 
>refuses a dynamic pattern to form a new >reality 
>The MOQ is of course no static level, but in 
>this particular >context it has a level-like 
>relationship with intellect. > > > Also, are you 
>saying that ALL intellectual patterns are more 
>moral than > > social patterns? > >Yes, 
>intellect is the highest static level, yet the 
>mere knowledge of the >dynamic/static context 
>(that the upper level is dependent the 
>lower >level for its own good) prevents 
>intellect from undermining its social >base. The 
>big question is if it prevents the MOQ from 
>undermining its >own base - intellect - I mean 
>if it can go on after being reduced to a >static 
>level? (footnote). > > > Essentially you are 
>saying that no one knows intellectual quality 
>unless > > they subscribe to your SOL. 
>-Ron > >That's right, but it isn't really "my 
>SOL" In ZAMM's proto-moq there is >just one 
>"static" (classic) level - the SOM - but it's 
>also called >"intellect" >so it was clearly 
>Phaedrus's original idea. And in LILA there are 
>many >indications that SOM is no foreign matter 
>that has polluted intellect, but >the very 
>article. > >IMO > >Bo > > >Footnote: >This is 
>the "intellect joining forces with biology to 
>quell society" >phenomenonÃ‚Â  brought one notch 
>up. The MOQ joining forces with >social value to 
>quell intellect. This would be a disaster and 
>why I at >times wonder about the MOQ. It's valid 
>as .... but is it GOOD? >Perhaps better let it 
>continue in its harmless "academical" vein, 
>letting . >Anthony McWatt and David Buchanan be 
>the administrators of 
>Pirsig's >legacy. > > > > > >Moq_Discuss mailing 
>list >Listinfo, Unsubscribing 
>etc. >http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_d 
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>_____________ The self is a thought-flow of 
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>inorganic, biological, social and intellectual, 
>static patterns of value responding to Dynamic 
>Quality. . . Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, 
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>Â  Â  Â  Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, 
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_____________

The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, 
interrelated and interconnected, inorganic, 
biological, social and intellectual, static 
patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality.

.
.