[MD] LC: Expanded Annotation 57

MarshaV marshalz at charter.net
Wed May 27 04:33:05 PDT 2009 

Greetings Ron,

I was thinking more along the lines of: if all is 
change, no distinction can be properly made, 
therefore the distinction that IS made is 
illusion.  -  For me, what is outside distinction 
is outside definition and does not lead to thoughts of absolute.


Marsha



At 07:04 AM 5/27/2009, you wrote:
>Dan, Marsha,
>Water may be ice it may be steam, change is relative yet consistent. Thinking
>that if all is change, distinction is impossible 
>leads to thoughts of absolute.
>Rationalism will do this.
>
>-Ron
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Dan Glover <daneglover at hotmail.com>
>To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
>Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 7:19:57 PM
>Subject: Re: [MD] LC: Expanded Annotation 57
>
>
>
>
>Hello everyone
>
>----------------------------------------
> > Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 03:02:41 -0400
> > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > From: marshalz at charter.net
> > Subject: Re: [MD] LC: Expanded Annotation 57
> >
> >
> > Greetings Will,
> >
> > Time and change have a relationship, yes? What does it actually mean
> > to state that everything is always in a state of
> > change? Everything! I'm thinking of the water analogy: If
> > everything is water, and there is nothing that is not water, then
> > there is no meaning to water, for there is no way of distinguishing a
> > difference between water and nonwater. Seems if you translate that
> > into change, then what humans have actually defined as change is
> > illusion. And if our definition of change is an illusion, how can
> > anything be conceived of as constant, as in Einstein's 'C', when
> > everything is changing? Against what is it measured?
> >
> > Can you untangle this mess between water, change and time?
>
>Hi Marsha
>
>Please excuse me for butting in. Isn't some 
>water better than other water? I read where the 
>space shuttle delivered a urine-reclamation unit 
>to the ISS in order to supply fresh water for 
>the anticipated doubling of the number of crew members in the near future.
>
>Now I don't know about anyone else, but I'd 
>rather not drink someone else's piss water no 
>matter how well it is recycled. Of course if I 
>was thirsty enough I might change my tune. But 
>nevertheless, I've decided not to visit the ISS 
>anytime in the near future, at least until they get running water installed.
>
>Hmmm, where was I now... I've seemed to have 
>wandered from my original point...
>
>Oh yes, some water is better... Let's say 
>reality is water and there is good water and 
>there is bad water and all different manner of 
>water in between. So even though everything is 
>water, there is great meaning between good water and bad water.
>
>I think a good analogy is this discussion group. 
>Everyone writes. So the discussion group is all 
>about writing and we could say since everything 
>about the discussion group is writing there is 
>no meaning to it. But there's good writing and 
>bad writing and everything in between. There's 
>great meaning found here even though it's all writing.
>
>I think change and time are spokes in the wheel 
>of life. Sometimes the road is smooth and all 
>goes well and everyone is happy and content and 
>we forget all about the spokes as we roll along. 
>Other times though, the road's bumpy and full of 
>ruts, difficult to traverse, and the entire 
>journey is treacherous and hard. And with each 
>bump in the road we're reminded of the spokes we're riding upon.
>
>Looking back (since that is all I can do), the 
>difficult journey has always been the one that 
>leads to the best, most memorably creative times 
>in my life (though not the happiest, to be 
>sure), while the easy and safe journey is soon 
>forgotten (though at the time the journey was 
>happening I must have been happier than in the 
>hard times, right?). I just don't know.
>
>What do you think?
>
>Dan
>
> >
> >
> > Marsha
> >
> >
> >
> > At 11:24 PM 5/25/2009, you wrote:
> >
> >>On May 25, 2009, at 11:09:02 AM, "Dan Glover" wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>Hello everyone
> >>
> >>----------------------------------------
> >>> Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 08:47:17 -0700
> >>> From: ridgecoyote at gmail.com
> >>> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [MD] LC: Expanded Annotation 57
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 12:39 PM, MarshaV wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> 57. In the MOQ time is dependent on experience
> >>>> independently of matter. Matter is a deduction from
> >>>> experience.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> So we just toss E=mc2 out the window?
> >>>
> >>> I think (unless it can be explained better to me) that the realization of
> >>> object precedes or arises with the realization of time. Time = change and
> >>> you can't have "change" without some"thing" changing.
> >>
> >>Hi John
> >>
> >>In the MOQ, matter arises from experience, not the other way around.
> >>Time arises from experience as well, so it arises independently of matter.
> >>
> >>I am unsure what you mean when you say: So we just toss E=mc2 out
> >>the window? Equations do not arise from matter. They are ideas. They
> >>arise from experience independently of matter.
> >>
> >>Does this help to better answer your question?
> >>
> >>Dan
> >>
> >>
> >>Hi all, Willblake2 here,
> >>
> >>I saw E=mc2, thought I'd jump in to see if physics has any bearing on MoQ.
> >>
> >>What this equation symbolizes is that energy and matter are
> >>identical. We can
> >>convert one to the other simply using a 
> constant number, that is the speed of
> >>light times itself. A very large number compared to numbers we are
> >>used to dealing
> >>with, but just a number like "2". To simplify, we could say that
> >>one mass is two energies.
> >>
> >>In the equation is the speed of light, which is distance traveled
> >>over time. This is
> >>where time comes into the picture. That is time separates
> >>distances. Einstein loved
> >>this kind of metaphysical stuff. Was a mystic in his own way, non
> >>of this spiritual
> >>unity stuff, but in trying to sort out the underlying fabric of reality.
> >>
> >>So what is so special about the speed of light? Well for one a
> >>photon (pure energy)
> >>zips around at that speed. More importantly, 
> it is thought that the speed is
> >>constant. That is if you are traveling at half the speed of light,
> >>and shine a flashlight
> >>it will appear to leave you at the speed of light, to someone
> >>standing by the road,
> >>the light from the flashlight will also leave at the speed of light
> >>(not 1 + a half speed).
> >>
> >>Einstein got to thinking about this and said that what is happening is that
> >>time is slowing down the faster you go. Therefore since the speed
> >>of light should
> >>be going at one and a half times, time goes slower to make up for this.
> >>That time slows down with speed has been shown in the lab, and in
> >>fact satellites
> >>and GPS systems take this slowing down into account for accuracy.
> >>
> >>OK, nothing new there. Now the limits of speed are 0 (zero) and
> >>the speed of
> >>light (SOL). Nothing goes slower than zero, nothing goes faster than SOL.
> >>Now, at the SOL, time does not move, it stays at 0. At our speed time
> >>moves along. Lets say, for metaphysical purposes that we switch the limits,
> >>and say that the speed of light is zero, and we are moving at close to the
> >>speed of light. This is just using a different reference. It
> >>makes sense to use
> >>the speed of light as zero, since time is stopped at that
> >>point. Therefore, light is
> >>dead still, and we are rushing through it. Imagine the wind of time blowing
> >>through your hair, you can feel it. When you are stopped along with light
> >>there is not wind, no time passing by. I would reference this
> >>thought experiment
> >>but I have not found it on the internet yet.
> >>
> >>OK, so we are moving very fast and we experience time. However at every
> >>instant time does not move. At every instant we are dead still, because
> >>an instant is so small that no time has passed. This is the Now. If the
> >>perception of Quality into our consciousness happens during this instant
> >>we could feel it. We would be going through infinitely short starts
> >>and stops.
> >>This would be a physics analogy of how Quality comes before time, in fact
> >> it is the background upon which time happens.
> >>
> >>An analogy of all this would be that Quality is the white background
> >>on a page
> >>in a book, and time is the written words. Although we are jumping
> >>through time,
> >>Quality is always there in the background. Time is caused by speed which is
> >>distance per time. This would mean that for time to appear by
> >>itself, distance
> >>would have to dissapear. There is no distance between us and Quality.
> >>You take out time by stopping and you have just Quality left.
> >>We could say that light is pure Quality (no time). And once
> >>again we can worship the Sun.
> >>
> >>Hope this made some sense, thanks for your time.
> >>
> >>Willblake2
> >>
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> >
> >
> > .
> > _____________
> >
> > The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, interrelated and
> > interconnected, inorganic, biological, social and intellectual,
> > static patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality.
> >
> > .
> > .
> >
> >
> >
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.
_____________

The self is a thought-flow of ever-changing, 
interrelated and interconnected, inorganic, 
biological, social and intellectual, static 
patterns of value responding to Dynamic Quality.

.
.

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