[MD] QRE: The 4th. level's two interpretations. Par

[Steven Peterson]

Hi Squonk,

I think you've been doing a great job explaining Pirsig's MOQ and why
the SOL is an unnesessary perversion. It's great to have you back!

In distinguishing the different MOQ levels (which I take to be types
of patterns of value rather than levels of awareness, which I think
may be Marsha's misunderstanding), I always liked Wim's suggestion
that we consider how patterns are maintained/latched. Social patterns
are maintained through unconscious copying of behavior while
intellectual patterns are maintained through unconscious copying of
rationales for behavior. What do you think?

Certainly your examples of intellect predating Socrates are also
examples of rationales for behavior selected based on intellectual
quality as distinct from the patterns that these rationales deal which
may be behaviors selected based on social quality (social patterns) or
biological patterns, inorganic patterns, or other intellectual
patterns.

Intellect comes into play when we start asking "why?" What is striking
to me about pre-intellectual texts such as the Bible is that
explanations often use the word "because" yet have nothing
recognizable as an intellectual rationale as in "And God blessed the
seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the
work of creating that he had done" or "Then Rachel said, "God has
vindicated me; he has listened to my plea and given me a son." Because
of this she named him Dan."

Yet other times, we do see rationales that have some intellectual
quality, so I think we even see a budding intellectual level (which is
the collection of all intellectual patterns) even in the early
Biblical writings to the extent that we can think of a single-cell as
life.

Best,
Steve





On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 9:09 AM,  <mark_maxwell at talktalk.net> wrote:
>
> Bo:
> Squonk is lost as always. SOM emerged as told in ZAMM and the
> "cosmologists" - represented by Socrates and Plato - were its budding
> objectivists. Read ZAMM for chrissake!
>
> Hi Bo,
> The Cosmologists thought many years prior to Socrates (469 - 399 BC) and Plato (428 - 348 BC).
> Thales of Miletus (624 - 546 BC) died over a hundred years before Socrates was born, and yet, Thales was predicting Solar eclipse.
> That skill utilised intellectual patterns prior to the emergence of SOM, and at a time when it is conjectured that Humans may have not experiences self consciousness (Homer, 850BC).
> Similarly, Pythagoras (570 - 495 BC).
>
> You have not had the courtesy to correspond with me directly regarding the evidence for the existence of intellectual patterns prior to the emergence of SOM, and yet you use ad hominem attacks to a third party upon the subject in a different thread.
>
> I here propose that Horse may consider introducing a forum rule which discourages this form evasion in order to encourage a higher quality of debate.
>
> All the best,
> squonk
>
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